Brake pads

[JasonL]

Hey everyone. So put R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors with their ceramic pads. Well 2600 miles later they pulsate. so just bought a whole set of brand new Brembo stock rotors. I would like to put a low dust ceramic pad on. I do not want to buy Hawk, out of the question. Car gets driven about 2-3k miles a year. Some suggestions that I was thinking were powerstop z26 or z23. Please let me know any other suggestions. Thanks !!!!!

[2010sgm]

Originally Posted by JasonL

Hey everyone. So put R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors with their ceramic pads. Well 2600 miles later they pulsate. so just bought a whole set of brand new Brembo stock rotors. I would like to put a low dust ceramic pad on. I do not want to buy Hawk, out of the question. Car gets driven about 2-3k miles a year. Some suggestions that I was thinking were powerstop z26 or z23. Please let me know any other suggestions. Thanks !!!!!

well thats not good to hear as i just put the r1 concepts setup on my 2010....

[FasNuf]

Originally Posted by JasonL

Hey everyone. So put R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors with their ceramic pads. Well 2600 miles later they pulsate. so just bought a whole set of brand new Brembo stock rotors. I would like to put a low dust ceramic pad on. I do not want to buy Hawk, out of the question. Car gets driven about 2-3k miles a year. Some suggestions that I was thinking were powerstop z26 or z23. Please let me know any other suggestions. Thanks !!!!!

Do you think the rotors are warped now since they pulsate? A couple things can cause this and I doubt it's the Hawk pads fault.
Things I've found that create a warped rotor ....( no particular order )

1. Washing the car, especially the wheels when the rotors are hot from driving hard.

2. Not properly burnishing in the brake pads after the install.

3. Cheap junk rotors

4. Not properly torquing aluminum wheels.

5. Overheating the brakes and not allowing to properly cool before stopping.

My $.02, feel free to correct me or add your own, this has just been my experience.

[SaReNi]

EBC yellow stuff pads

[JasonL]

Originally Posted by FasNuf

Do you think the rotors are warped now since they pulsate? A couple things can cause this and I doubt it's the Hawk pads fault.
Things I've found that create a warped rotor ....( no particular order )

1. Washing the car, especially the wheels when the rotors are hot from driving hard.

2. Not properly burnishing in the brake pads after the install.

3. Cheap junk rotors

4. Not properly torquing aluminum wheels.

5. Overheating the brakes and not allowing to properly cool before stopping.

My $.02, feel free to correct me or add your own, this has just been my experience.

Thanks for the reply. But asking for new pad recomendiations. Car is driven easily, not beat on, garage kept. The brakes are full R1 setup. They were burnished in according to their directions. Wheels are torqued to spec (I use alldata at my shop so I have all specs) New torque to yield caliper bolts (33ft lbs and 90 degress)....... So install is 100% correct !

[JasonL]

Originally Posted by 2010sgm

well thats not good to hear as i just put the r1 concepts setup on my 2010....

Hopefully you have better luck than me. What rotors did you get? Pads??

[Trawz]

With the track day stuff I do, I have been dallying hawk DTS70s with titanium spacers on my Z06 front calipers and using DTS60s in the rear.
But they are the opposite from what you want. They squeak all the damn time, clunk, and dust like hell.
Boy, do they haul the car down tho!

For street use, I have had great luck with the EBC Yellows and Reds.
The yellows dust more, but in my opinion, that just means they are working better!

I have always preferred a good set of pads that dust a bit over cheap/crap pads that don't.

[FASTFATBOY]

Brake rotors don't warp. Ceramic pads do not like ANY kind of heat, when you overheat the pads they melt onto the rotor causing spots and an uneven surface which causes brake vibration.

Two of the best ways to get the pad transfer off the rotors is either resurface them, use a kit or brake rotor hone to get it off.

If you want good brakes buy better pads, the factory pads are very very hard to beat for braking power with a decently high temp threshold.

Pad transfer



Read it>>> https://alconkits.com/technical-info...ed-brake-discs


More>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=warp...&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

[CamaroCracka]

Originally Posted by FASTFATBOY

Brake rotors don't warp.

I follow what you are saying about the pad material melting to the rotor and causing pulsing, but can you elaborate on rotors not warping? Certainly, the runout on a rotor can get out of spec, which is what I have always thought people meant when they said they had a warped rotor. You've mentioned this a couple times and I'm just not familiar with what you are referring to. I skimmed the articles, but I have seen rotors that are physically out of spec on runout as measured by a dial indicator. I'm not saying it was caused by heat, but one article mentioned non-metalic pads and modern resins, but rotors with excessive runout predate ceramic brake pads by decades.

[FasNuf]

I get what he's saying about the pad material getting on the rotors making if feel warped. Thats basically what burnishing in does is transfer a little pad material to the rotor evenly. Pads dont grip bare steel as well as a rotor that had evenly distributed pad material. Thats what I meant when I said you warp the rotors if you dont burnish them properly. If you come to a complete stop, the pad will melt onto the rotor causing high spots. This is why when you do the procedure your not supposed to stop and then your supposed to cool the brakes before you finish the burnish drive.
As far as the picture of the overheated rotor with hot spots. My opinion on that is it's done. Buy new rotors if your heat checked that bad. It's like a flywheel. You can resurface it, but the hardened areas are still there. My thing with the OP is it seemed he was blaming the pads for the pulsation and I think it was a rotor issue. If it's metal, it can warp.

[FASTFATBOY]

I gave you guys all the info to read, just read it. If you think Alcon is lying to you I don't know what to tell you. Alcon makes brakes for the fastest race cars in the world.

To physically "warp" a rotor you have to exceed 2300 degrees.

There was a great video by Raybestos but I can't find it.

[FASTFATBOY]

Originally Posted by FasNuf

I get what he's saying about the pad material getting on the rotors making if feel warped. Thats basically what burnishing in does is transfer a little pad material to the rotor evenly. Pads dont grip bare steel as well as a rotor that had evenly distributed pad material. Thats what I meant when I said you warp the rotors if you dont burnish them properly. If you come to a complete stop, the pad will melt onto the rotor causing high spots. This is why when you do the procedure your not supposed to stop and then your supposed to cool the brakes before you finish the burnish drive.
As far as the picture of the overheated rotor with hot spots. My opinion on that is it's done. Buy new rotors if your heat checked that bad. It's like a flywheel. You can resurface it, but the hardened areas are still there. My thing with the OP is it seemed he was blaming the pads for the pulsation and I think it was a rotor issue. If it's metal, it can warp.

You seem to be confused on what you are talking about.

The pic I posted above, the rotor has not been "overheated" at all, the pads exceeded their temp ceiling and melted onto the rotor. What you see on the rotor are not "hot spots" it is pad material melted onto the rotor surface. Coming to a stop does not smear the pad like pictured above it makes an imprint of the pad onto the rotor when that happens, I did it coming off track and stopped to talk to a friend in the paddock.

The above rotor is not "heat checked" , this is a "heat checked" rotor. The cracks are from heat cycling the rotor on track. Below is a "heat checked" rotor.




I have melted Hawk DTC 30's onto rotors at Barber, the car was shaking like a paint shaker at Lowes. I bought DTC60's and put them on that same set of rotors and drove them on the street for a month without bedding them in and the DTC 60's scraped off all the DTC30 pad material, the rotors were fine. It squeaked like a NYC trash truck, but it worked. If the rotors were physically warped it wouldn't have worked. I learned this from reading and listening to guys who have done it.

I also melted ceramic pads onto my stock ZL1 rotors, I put the factory Brembo pads back on the car and it took about 6 months but 95% of the vibration from the ceramic pads being melted onto the rotors is gone.

"Warped rotors" is an old wives tale, 99% of the time the rotor isn't warped. I was a dealership tech for 12 years and thought the same thing until I started doing track days and did a lot of research and learning.

You guys can believe what ya want, I gave you the info.

[FasNuf]

Yes correct on the checking, bad wording on my part, hot spots was what I was seeing on the other pic. As far as ceramic not liking heat, I dont understand what you're talking about there. Ceramic is used in high performance clutches because the organic can't take the heat and abuse. The only thing I knew to be bad about ceramic was they destroyed my rotors.

[FASTFATBOY]

Originally Posted by FasNuf

Yes correct on the checking, bad wording on my part, hot spots was what I was seeing on the other pic. As far as ceramic not liking heat, I dont understand what you're talking about there. Ceramic is used in high performance clutches because the organic can't take the heat and abuse. The only thing I knew to be bad about ceramic was they destroyed my rotors.

Ceramic material in a clutch is designed to bite, not to slip. Slip a ceramic puck clutch at the track trying to roll the car out and it will chatter then slip. From that point on it will chatter on release.

Actually Organic is much better material in a stick car trying to roll the car out than any other material.

Call Powerstop and ask them the heat range on their ceramic brake pads that everyone uses and then compare that number to a Ferodo DS2500(which is what comes factory on a 5th gen ZL1 pretty much) and look at how low the heat ceiling is on that ceramic pad vs the factory pad and you'll see what I am talking about.

From Hawk, 650 degrees ain't shit. I would bet Power Stop ceramics are in the 450 degree range and parts store pads less than that.

Hawk Performance Ceramic Compound Characteristics:
Extremely Quite
Ultra-low Dust
Improved Stopping Power
Gentle on rotors
Stable Friction Output
100-650 Deg F Operating Temperature Range
100-450 Deg F Optimal Temperature Range

Ferodo DS2500, 935 degree temp ceiling

The main characteristics of DS2500 are: Track day & light race use for all vehicle types. Road style refinement but with race material ability to withstand heat with respect to life and µ Average friction coefficient of 0.42 over working temperature range of 20°-500°C.


A real track pad:

Raybestos ST47 brake pads have an operation temp range of 300 to 1100 degrees

This is the reason you never hear of a "warped" rotor on a track car. When I had the correct pads on the car I never had a brake vibration. Temp strips on my calipers showed 450 degrees, rotors way higher than that.