Paint Sealant vs carnuba was

[amphi]

Hello,

Reading the car detailing thread for newbies I might have missed something.
I understand:
Paint Sealant, only use every six months, not as vibrant as natural wax.

Wax, must use every month, brings out the vibrant colors.

It was mentioned you can use both. Can someone go into more detail on this?
If you put down, let's say one film of paint sealant let cure, wash, put down second film of paint sealant. Allow to cure and then start waxing the car, do you then always wax the car and never use the paint sealant again? Can you use the paint sealant on top of the wax if you don't have time to wash the car, let's say more than six months (God forbid!!) How can you tell your wax has worn off down to the sealant? How can you tell your sealant has worn off? Thanks.

[Junkman2008]

First of all, some of the information you are getting is a combination of flawed and the products being discussed are not of the same caliber. Let's discuss the misconception that you have with wax.

First, wax does not make paint shine. Wax is used to protect the finish. It is all the prep that you do up to the point that you apply wax is what makes paint shine. Check out these two pictures of my hatch inside the garage and the hatch and quarterpanel outside at sunset. Notice the reflectivity. Take in to consideration also that there is NO WAX on the car whatsoever:





This is totally from the prep. At this point, I am now ready to apply wax and I can tell you for a fact that the shine will not get any deeper or any shinier. The only thing that the wax is going to do is protect that shine.

Now let me say this. You can buy some over the counter junk wax, put it on your car and the appearance will improve. The reason being is that the junk product that you have purchased is removing some of the garbage off the surface of your paint that is causing it to look dull. This is exactly what claying and polishing does, however, claying and polishing does a much better job. The all-in-one products do a mediocre job in doing the same thing. Thus, if the pictures that I have posted are the level of shine that you want to achieve, then you have to do the work. Once you have achieved this level of shine, all you have to do is maintain it.

Now let's talk about sealant versus wax. There are two common consistences with these products. Sealants always last longer than all the other waxes. Sealants will also often contain filling properties, which help to hide minor imperfections in the paint. All other waxes do nothing but protect the finish. Now keep in mind that the only products that I am talking about are professional grade, not the over the counter junk. Here is how these professional grade products are normally applied.

Sealants are applied and allowed to cure first. The filling properties in sealants will help hide some of the paint's imperfections by filling in the damage. You can either apply more sealant and allow it to cure also, however, I like to move on to wax as I don't want to take a chance at clouding up the shine. So once the sealant has cured, I will apply my wax. This will trap the sealant inside those imperfections that it is hiding and keep it from washing out as fast. You can apply more coats of wax but personally, I again do not like taking a chance at clouding up the shine.

Doing this is not going to make any noticeable difference in the depth of the shine, however, the hiding of those small imperfections will appear to make the paint look better. It is merely an allusion as the less amount of damage that you see in the paint, the better it will look. I prefer to address the damage during the prep so that I don't have a need to cover up anything. In the beginning it is more work, but end the end it not only looks better, but I also don't have to go through all the work of sealing AND waxing.

You will quickly find out that with detailing, you are going to pay the fat lady at some point. It will be now or later but if you truly care about your car's finish, the fat lady will get her funds. The question is, how much work do you want to do trying to avoid her, or are you going to be smart enough to "render unto the fat lady what is the fat lady's." OTC products are how you try and avoid her. Professional grade products are how you pay her. There are a bunch of products on the market to choose from, they just don't come across the counter at Auto Zone, O'Reilly's, Pep Boys or Advance Auto.

[2010 SSRS]

Nice

[pastohio]

Maybe others can chime in....I was always tayght that Carnuba is a big HARD bar of wax and to make it soft and pliable to use for car wax, it has to be cut with a petroleum distillate like kerosene, also this kerosene gives the slick-wet look BUT who wants kerosene against the clear coat especially in the sun and if a black or dark blue car it gets even warmer on the surface....I think the wax companies have made "carnuba" to sound like "salsa" because I think people just like to say it off their lips....I feel claybar, total cleaning then glazes work the best....

[Junkman2008]

Originally Posted by pastohio

Maybe others can chime in....I was always tayght that Carnuba is a big HARD bar of wax and to make it soft and pliable to use for car wax, it has to be cut with a petroleum distillate like kerosene, also this kerosene gives the slick-wet look BUT who wants kerosene against the clear coat especially in the sun and if a black or dark blue car it gets even warmer on the surface....I think the wax companies have made "carnuba" to sound like "salsa" because I think people just like to say it off their lips....I feel claybar, total cleaning then glazes work the best....

Carnuba in its true, 100% form is a hard brick of substance. That's why it makes a really good protectant. For me, I never get into the semantics of all the product contents. It makes for boring reading and most people quickly loose interest when you spew that info. What I rely on are results that you can see. You can talk or claim that any product will do anything but when you show people something that they can see with their own eyes, they will need no in-depth explanation.

Seeing truly is believing.

[amphi]

Thank you, Junkman. Very informative.
Now I assume you never want to put sealant ontop of wax?
How do you know between washes that you need to apply more sealant, or just wax?
How can you tell how far down your protection has worn off?

[Junkman2008]

Originally Posted by amphi

Thank you, Junkman. Very informative.
Now I assume you never want to put sealant ontop of wax?
How do you know between washes that you need to apply more sealant, or just wax?
How can you tell how far down your protection has worn off?

I wouldn't put sealant on top of wax because of what I explained in my post. It makes absolutely no common sense (and we know I'm all about common sense). As for being able to tell if the wax has worn off, you check to see if your imperfections are beginning to show back up. That's a hint. If you apply your wax often enough, you shouldn't have to apply more sealant unless you are washing the car with some brutal stuff like Dawn. That will take everything off the paint.

[amphi]

Originally Posted by Junkman2008

As for being able to tell if the wax has worn off, you check to see if your imperfections are beginning to show back up. That's a hint. If you apply your wax often enough, you shouldn't have to apply more sealant unless you are washing the car with some brutal stuff like Dawn. That will take everything off the paint.

I am sorry. I am not quite understanding. If some of my minor scratches are starting to show up, does this mean my sealant is also wearing down? Or just the wax?

That is my problem being in Germany, I might miss a month or two of waxing, and cause my sealant to start wearing down. If I knew I would be able to wax the car when needed, I would skip the sealant. I plan on using the sealant in case I miss a couple of dire needed wax applications. Does this thinking make sense?

[Junkman2008]

Sealants usually last 2 months or longer. Waxes can last up to 2 months, maybe longer. If you add a sealant to part of the car and see some minor scratches disappear, that is because the sealant is filling them in. If those scratches begin to show back, common sense will tell you that the sealant that was masking that damage is no longer doing so. Thus, more sealant would be needed. Only you are going to know when this is necessary because you have to pay attention to the before and after of the sealant application.

Wax on top of the sealant will help keeping the sealant on the car. Thus, if you wax at the correct interval, you may not have to reapply any sealant.

[Onereign]

I have discovered the true secret to Junkman's shine... he glues mirrors all over his ride!!
Jk man, that is some awesome looking paint. Keep up the good work. I know you have personally pulled me out of the Matrix and revolutionized the way I detail my Baby.

[Junkman2008]

Originally Posted by Onereign

I have discovered the true secret to Junkman's shine... he glues mirrors all over his ride!!
Jk man, that is some awesome looking paint. Keep up the good work. I know you have personally pulled me out of the Matrix and revolutionized the way I detail my Baby.

Welcome to the sickness!