Could the new LLT 3.6L DI be considered this generations "Mouse Motor"???? - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Xanthos · 11-03-2008, 08:55 PM

On a related note, the LLT block is designed to support up to 4.0 liters of displacement. Been thinking about this a lot lately - was thinking of just doing bolt ons (a custom spectre modular intake with a crap load of flow, a custom header back exhaust, porting the throttle body/intake manifold, etc) until its no longer my daily driver - or at least no longer under warranty - and then boring the block to 4.0, dropping in new lower CR pistons, and turbocharging the thing. After some weight reduction mods and a full suspension, the thing would be a track beast.
- Xanthos

P.S. - The other idea I was kicking around would be to bore the block to 4.0, drop in pistons designed to maintain the 11.3:1 compression ratio, and then cam it. Once again, it would probably have some impressive power.

ZeeTwentyFour · 11-03-2008, 10:03 PM

that would be something I would follow with great interest if and when you do it!

BowtieGuy · 11-03-2008, 10:29 PM

It's definitely the new six cylinder tuner king. Once the D/I coding is cracked the possibilities are immense.

Evilangel · 11-04-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowtieGuy

It's definitely the new six cylinder tuner king. Once the D/I coding is cracked the possibilities are immense.

That's exciting, but besides D3 has anyone actually proven that DI is better for tuning than FI?

Crowley · 11-04-2008, 07:33 AM

What I would be excited about is the turbo possibility of this engine. With the DI, you wouldn't have to lower compression too much if at all (look at the 4 cyl and 6 cyl mazda and bmw engines that are DI and turbo making good power). I would say you could be looking at a 400hp engine w/ a very nice torque curve ..

Crowley

*DGthe3* · 11-04-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowley

What I would be excited about is the turbo possibility of this engine. With the DI, you wouldn't have to lower compression too much if at all (look at the 4 cyl and 6 cyl mazda and bmw engines that are DI and turbo making good power). I would say you could be looking at a 400hp engine w/ a very nice torque curve ..

Crowley

Or the Cobalt SS. It has a DI turbo.

Evilangel · 11-04-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Or the Cobalt SS. It has a DI turbo.

Interesting, so essentially you can have high CR AND still retain moderate boost. I wonder what a car at that weight with 400whp and a nice high stall converter would do in a 1/4 mile???

BowtieGuy · 11-04-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilangel

That's exciting, but besides D3 has anyone actually proven that DI is better for tuning than FI?

Let me put it to you this way. Diesels are Direct Injection, and how much power do you get out of those with just a simple hand tuner? About 100hp on average, and even more torque. Turbo diesel motors still have that insane compression (13:1 and more) and handle high boost like a champ. Now imagine all of these things in a gas motor that can spin even higher RPM. That gives you a vague idea of what we're dealing with here.

Evilangel · 11-05-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BowtieGuy

Let me put it to you this way. Diesels are Direct Injection, and how much power do you get out of those with just a simple hand tuner? About 100hp on average, and even more torque. Turbo diesel motors still have that insane compression (13:1 and more) and handle high boost like a champ. Now imagine all of these things in a gas motor that can spin even higher RPM. That gives you a vague idea of what we're dealing with here.

Thanks, I didn't realize this was the systemused in the diesels.

LS9CamaroSS · 11-05-2008, 01:36 PM

so this could also be a good candidate for gm's first compression ignition gas engine?

*Mr. Wyndham* · 11-05-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

so this could also be a good candidate for gm's first compression ignition gas engine?

They already have two prototypes running (that I'm aware of via reading news articles, etc) based off of the Ecotec-family.

*DGthe3* · 11-05-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

so this could also be a good candidate for gm's first compression ignition gas engine?

I'm thinking that its almost being used as an intermediate step, as well as being the basis for most new conventional engines. Evolutionary design changes are often fairly reliable, radical ones aren't. So make any big change as a series of smaller ones and reliability of the new design won't differ much from the previous one.

Beau · 12-07-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

What I would be excited about is the turbo possibility of this engine. With the DI, you wouldn't have to lower compression too much if at all (look at the 4 cyl and 6 cyl mazda and bmw engines that are DI and turbo making good power). I would say you could be looking at a 400hp engine w/ a very nice torque curve ..

Their compression is FAR lower with direct injection, hence the turbo. NA 11.3:1 is very high, even for direct injection. The motor would behave like a 10.3:1 port fueled motor for knock purposes. So for as much boost as you could make on a 10.3:1 aluminum motor, you could do the same to the 11.3:1 DI GM motor.

The beauty about tuning NA on this car is that the compression ratio is high, so if you did some sloppy cams, or at least more agressive ones say 264/264 or 272s, you would still keep a decent amount of dynamic compression ratio.

With full header, no cats 3 inch exhaust, intake and a tune on this 3.6 you will see well over 315 WHP.

Flighttester · 01-15-2009, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilangel

That's exciting, but besides D3 has anyone actually proven that DI is better for tuning than FI?

Ask Porsche, Audi, Mercedes Benz and Ferrari.

They might have some knowledge about which is better.

Compression ratio has nothing directly to do with direct injection, other than you can generally run HIGHER compression ratios with lower octane fuel with direct injection because you can not only time the spark, you can control detonation because you have much better control of exactly when the fuel is mixed with the air.

Other than the price of the hardware involved (high pressure fuel pumps), there are few negatives with direct injection for the many positives it offers.

Most all diesels have been for a long time.

Won't be long almost all engines (especially those where absolutely low purchase price is not the primary requirement) will be direct injected. They are efficient enough to pay for themselves over time.

11-03-2008, 08:55 PM	#15
Xanthos PWA Relapse Drives: Formerly-Stick Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 12,588 View My Garage	On a related note, the LLT block is designed to support up to 4.0 liters of displacement. Been thinking about this a lot lately - was thinking of just doing bolt ons (a custom spectre modular intake with a crap load of flow, a custom header back exhaust, porting the throttle body/intake manifold, etc) until its no longer my daily driver - or at least no longer under warranty - and then boring the block to 4.0, dropping in new lower CR pistons, and turbocharging the thing. After some weight reduction mods and a full suspension, the thing would be a track beast. - Xanthos P.S. - The other idea I was kicking around would be to bore the block to 4.0, drop in pistons designed to maintain the 11.3:1 compression ratio, and then cam it. Once again, it would probably have some impressive power. __________________ 2017 1LT/RS A8 Hyper Blue Metallic

11-03-2008, 10:03 PM	#16
ZeeTwentyFour Does not have a Camaro Drives: 99 silverado Z71/66 Chevelle SS Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 469 View My Garage	that would be something I would follow with great interest if and when you do it! __________________

11-03-2008, 10:29 PM	#17
BowtieGuy Enlightened Drives: Nothing Currently Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,285	It's definitely the new six cylinder tuner king. Once the D/I coding is cracked the possibilities are immense. __________________ If you believe it is your right to speak freely no matter the content, relevance, or intelligence of statement, then it is my duty to the powers that be to set you straight. People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order. So they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say. Kurt Vonnegut

11-04-2008, 07:33 AM	#19
Crowley Okie doke Drives: 2012 GT500 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: McKinney Texas Posts: 3,568 View My Garage	What I would be excited about is the turbo possibility of this engine. With the DI, you wouldn't have to lower compression too much if at all (look at the 4 cyl and 6 cyl mazda and bmw engines that are DI and turbo making good power). I would say you could be looking at a 400hp engine w/ a very nice torque curve .. Crowley __________________

11-05-2008, 01:36 PM	#24
LS9CamaroSS Drives: Cavalier RS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jordan, NY Posts: 569	so this could also be a good candidate for gm's first compression ignition gas engine?