I don't like domestic...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Deja-vue.

Not the dreaded cr battle.

I'm a cr subscriber. They send me a paper to fill out re all kinds of products.

I tell them..Yes, my new Dell did need service. Yes, it was done well.

And so on, and so on.

They do look at say a 2007 blank car, and may say, the 2007 was good, so the 2008 should be too. That's the ONLY mistake they made.

The reliability survey is simple facts reported by OWNERS.

About cars, about washing machines, etc, etc.

The problem is that it is biased due to limited population. Even if there are 10M subscribers to the magazine, you still need to be a subscriber to fill out the survey. Now, everybody knows that they give imports better reviews than domestics. What portion of domestic supporters would buy something that says their car is crap? It will be quite limited. Plus you have what Stov was saying about forgiving certain cars but not extending the same rationale to others. I attribute the minor issues that I'm having with the '97 Saturn with the fact that its a 12 year old car with over 140k miles. My coworker says its because its a domestic.

[zebra]

another problem is how people care for their vehicles. i had a 91 explorer for 3 & a half years, and the only stuff i had to do to it was regular maintenance & common 4.0 problems (freeze plugs rusted through like mofos). i drove it to 207k mi. after i got the truck below, i gave the ford to my little sister. she changed the oil when she remembered & overall treated it like crap. the truck was scrapped a little over 213k mi because the motor locked up after being a gallon low on oil. moral of the story, take care of stuff & it'll last. don't & it'll go south real quick.

ps - some people also attribute normal parts wearing out after high mileage to being 'poor quality'

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The problem is that it is biased due to limited population. Even if there are 10M subscribers to the magazine, you still need to be a subscriber to fill out the survey. Now, everybody knows that they give imports better reviews than domestics. What portion of domestic supporters would buy something that says their car is crap? It will be quite limited. Plus you have what Stov was saying about forgiving certain cars but not extending the same rationale to others. I attribute the minor issues that I'm having with the '97 Saturn with the fact that its a 12 year old car with over 140k miles. My coworker says its because its a domestic.

It's a vicious cycle...

[kanakattack]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Or maybe Consumer Reports should quit sucking up to the import companies. Biggest load of hogwash I have seen in my life. They seem to have missed the memo that said that the Malibu was JD Power and Associates Best Midsize Sedan in Initial Quality...the camry and accord weren't even on the list.

Actually the Malibu was one of the of the 4 that was recommended, the others were the Pontiac Vibe(sic Toyota Matrix), Chevrolet Avalanche, and the Saturn Aura XR (V6). GM did well, no other American manufacturers made the list. On the other hand Chrysler/Dodge products were high on the "Not Recommended" list, the Charger (V8), PT Cruiser (turbo), Sebring (V6), Sebring Convertible, Town and Country, Avenger, Caravan and Jeep Liberty were on that list. The Audi A3, BMW X5 (6-cyl.) Porsche Cayenne, Jaguar XK, Volvo XC70, Susuki XL-7 and the Volkswagen Eos were also on the "Not Recommended" list. There were some GM's represented, Cadillac STS (V6) and CTS, Chevrolet Silverado 2500 (turbodiesel, 4WD), GMC Acadia, GMC Sierra 2500 (turbodiesel, 4WD), Saturn Outlook and Vue.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Deja-vue.

Not the dreaded cr battle.

I'm a cr subscriber. They send me a paper to fill out re all kinds of products.

I tell them..Yes, my new Dell did need service. Yes, it was done well.

And so on, and so on.

They do look at say a 2007 blank car, and may say, the 2007 was good, so the 2008 should be too. That's the ONLY mistake they made.

The reliability survey is simple facts reported by OWNERS.

About cars, about washing machines, etc, etc.

Let's not forget an important thing that's easy to overlook. People who have Consumer Reports trust Consumer Reports. If they already believed that the Toyota they bought was fine and get one that happens to be fine, it only inflates the margin of good reviews to bad reviews on a product. As a subscriber, you get polled. Since you are a subscriber, you have probably bought products based upon reviews. In effect, you further reviewed products based upon the fact that you read a review and bought the product. If that review had been for a competitor, you would have bought the competitor.

It is called a sample bias. When ten million people are polled about the Prius and seven people are polled about the Aveo, we can expect that the Prius poll will get more attention because more people were polled. The Prius' early positive rating brought on board more and more people. Without a similar product to compare the Prius, it was successful. The Aveo, in effect, will not get the same success because it will always be compared to the Prius. Does it do this and that like a Prius? If it does, then it is satisfactory. If it does not, then it is unsatisfactory. A single negative mark on the Aveo is an excuse for biased automotive media to point out that Toyota has rightfully stolen GM's number 1 spot due to inferior products that only compete rather than excelling.

Let me reiterate. At one point, people gave good feedback on a product to Consumer Reports. After that, Consumer Reports buyers buy the product and rate it well because they have only a review of that product for comparison. When a competitor is reviewed, it gets a negative review because it is compared to the original review. The sample of people who buy this product will be smaller than the other product, and is therefore more likely to have less reliable and poorer results because people tend to agree with the status quo, in this post's case, the fact that the Prius is a good product. The end result is that the first product reviewed will always score better than a competitor and that customers will only review products that they have bought due to their decision to buy from a previous review. They will merely agree or disagree with an existing review rather than creating a new one for a new product. No one wants to be the first to buy a product with no reviews.

Yes—there are lots of exceptions to the rule, and that is why Consumer Reports is successful. I just find that the trend in scientific polling is that comparative polling has to be done in a very controlled environment to get adequate results. Consumer Reports fails to do that.

[TorrentRS]

Why the hell are Americans complaining about the economy, if they won't support it?

Are they the definition of a living, breathing oxymoron?

[TFord]

Originally Posted by TorrentRS

Why the hell are Americans complaining about the economy, if they won't support it?

Are they the definition of a living, breathing oxymoron?

I agree with you...all the don't buy domestic have a fair share of the blame for the current economic situation. I know toooo many people that wont buy anything domestic. Its sooo hard to not slap 'em when they start whining about the economy. And we're the only one's that do it...if you go overseas in most places anything american is like crack!

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by TorrentRS

Why the hell are Americans complaining about the economy, if they won't support it?

Are they the definition of a living, breathing oxymoron?

I'm not happy about those people. :middlefinger:

Originally Posted by TFord

I agree with you...all the don't buy domestic have a fair share of the blame for the current economic situation. I know toooo many people that wont buy anything domestic. Its sooo hard to not slap 'em when they start whining about the economy. And we're the only one's that do it...if you go overseas in most places anything american is like crack!

We make high-quality products here and elsewhere under the names of our domestic companies. Everyone else sees it. Why can't we see it?

[camaro5]

Let's pop a cap into this thread.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by AngryAmish

So, what does this guy with his scary intellect drive? I'd like to know, mainly because I want to pour some of the green kool-aid he is drinking into my gastank. Thats bound to be some strong stuff.

A Scion TC

[TRIXXTERR]

Originally Posted by zebra

that guy needs to quit being a closed-minded douche. (to be blunt) if he won't consider something just because of whether it's made by this country or another, he's retarded.

Originally Posted by zebra

i know he's your buddy & all, but you asked... so that's what i think. for a little clarification: i ain't trying to say he's a horrible person or anything. i'm sure he's a great guy- after all, he's your friend. that's just a bad mindset to have towards things that are out of your comfort zone. people should look at most things on an individual basis and get the facts before they make a blatant judgment like that.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by zebra

another problem is how people care for their vehicles. i had a 91 explorer for 3 & a half years, and the only stuff i had to do to it was regular maintenance & common 4.0 problems (freeze plugs rusted through like mofos). i drove it to 207k mi. after i got the truck below, i gave the ford to my little sister. she changed the oil when she remembered & overall treated it like crap. the truck was scrapped a little over 213k mi because the motor locked up after being a gallon low on oil. moral of the story, take care of stuff & it'll last. don't & it'll go south real quick.

ps - some people also attribute normal parts wearing out after high mileage to being 'poor quality'

This probably pisses me off more than anything. People tell me all the time that their domestic cars had horrible quality, but then you find out that they changed the oil maybe once in the time that they had it. Then when it breaks down, they blame the company.

And someone actually had the nerve to tell me that my dad's '93 Saturn SW2 died after 243,000 miles because of poor quality. Really? Lemme say that again, 243 THOUSAND miles...