Mac Haik in Houston denies my written agreement for MSRP (UPDATE: Issue resolved!!!)

[speedster]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

...I ordered a Camaro at MSRP. This was a pre ordered car with an agreed to price at the time it was ordered. [/B]

I think you need to speak with Scott Settlemire. He may be able to help you.

[diV6]

Originally Posted by chevygolfguy

It sounds to me like there are really two problems here; one is legal and the other practical.

From the legal perspective what you probably had was an "order" and not a contract to purchase the vehicle. That contract is handed to you when you swap $ for car keys. Unfortunately for a contract to be binding, you have to have a few things, one of which is a meeting of the minds. In your mind, you had an enforcible deal. The dealer on the other hand had another name of a potential buyer on a list that wanted a new Camaro. The sales guy who was on your side (don't believe that for a minute, it's called "good cop - bad cop" or "Mutt & Jeffing it") probably didn't have the authority to legally bind the dealership; that authority usually resides with the sales manager or the owner. Sure you can sue the dealership, but you are likely to lose early on in that battle for the reason above stated (and there are others - but all it takes is this one reason).

As to the practical, the dealer doesn't give a rat's behind about the damaged goodwill and whether he has lost 6 potential buyers of cars. He may not even be in business in a year from now given what is going on in the world today. Even if you did sue and win, the reality is your car will be long gone and you would be looking at another one or cash damages. The better tact to take is to move on, find a car at another dealer and tell everyone you can about your "buying experience" with the bad dealer. That will have a more profound affect on the dealer than the threat of a lawsuit or loss of business from 6 relatives. As to the AG or BBB, they won't do a damn thing for you, even if you can get them to listen. And the media won't care either. You don't sound like you fit the profile of a downtrodden citizen being beaten up by Goliath (sp?). And GM is a whole other story. Not enough time to talk about why they will be of no help.

As one reader stated, in about a year you should be able to buy under sticker if they are still building them.

I have a 2ss on "order". We'll see what the dealer wants when it comes in.

Good luck! How much for the vette?

As a graduating law student, whose contract law is admittedly a bit fuzzy, I don't totally agree with your analysis. However, its really going to come down to what was written on that signed piece of paper and many other details that neither of us know, so maybe you are right and there is no contract.

To Oldtymer, I would definitely talk to whoever is at the top of this dealership. If they cant fix it for you, talk to the BBB, maybe the consumer protection department of your DA's office, and maybe finaly a private attorney. This last option can be expensive.

And generally, taking legal advice on the internet is about as smart as taking medical advice on the internet. Don't trust it.

[Iwantone2]

oldtimer,

can you give us a clue of what the pm from "you know who" stated?

[memocg]

So why can't we just order directly from GM get all the discounts that they "advertise" and stop dealing with all these pieces of crap who would rather make a quick buck then keep loyal customers. I've never meet this dealer but I say lets pettition to get him on the Dealer Closing List. Pieces of CRAP!!!

[Nexus6]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

According to GM, if they do anything that punishes a dealer it's against some law that's different in every state and impossible to contest.

Anti-trust laws

[99 Z28er]

Originally Posted by Suskam

This is what I am afraid of happening, but remember - it's not GM that screwed you. The dealerships make their own deals with customers for pricing. I've been thinking about this same scenario in my head since I ordered.

Best way to combat that? Make the deal/agreement directly with the general sales manager at the dealer. Every car I've ever bought I've had the GSM sitting across the table from me at some point during the negotiation process -- I think I scare the salesmen

If you get HIS word and a signed/written statement, it isn't so easy for them to back out.

[chevygolfguy]

div6. You miss the point. You sue, you win - and then what? Are you going then have the car serviced at the dealership? Are you going to buy more cars from the dealership? What's more, attorneys cost money, lots of it. Under the common law in this county, the American Rule is followed, meaning each side pays his own attorney fees. They should have taught you this in law school. It is very rare for a court to award attorneys fees, even in the face of outlandish behavior by one of the parties.

Odds are the dealer has raft of attorneys on retainer who deal with these situations all the time. Oldtimer would likely get papered to death by the attorneys in discovery and if my guess is right about the paperwork, there is a total failure of consideration here. So Oldtimer will get summary dispo'd at some stage, but only after the dealership has inflicted enough punishment financially first. Proving damages is also a very real difficult aspect of this case. And if Oldtimer wants to test my theory, he should try to find an attorney who will take this case on a retainer basis. Would you? I wouldn't.

Which brings me back to the practical side of things. Live and learn, buy from another dealer and spread the word to everyone who will listen. Forums like this do just that. This is the same advise I would give Oldtimer if he were sitting across from my desk. But I would gladly take his money if he still wants to file suit.

I am not suggesting he not consult an attorney. Quite the contrary. Most lawyers will give you a half hour of their time for free.

Oldtimer, if you do consult a (reputable) lawyer, let this forum know what he/she has to say

[ravensjeff]

I understand that a dealer can mark MSRP up to whatever they want- don't agree with it, but understand it. I would not buy from them. The real problem here is that Oldtimer apparently asked and received some kind of confirmation up front to buy the car at MSRP months ago. Thats misleading and has wasted alot of his time.

Another thing that doesn't make sense is that it appears the dealer's sales practice on this car is to mark up all of them. What is Oldtimers written agreement? WHO signed it? I know my salesmen did NOT have the authority to sell at MSRP- he had to ask the sales manager. Sounds like Oldtimers salesmen violated this. You would like to think that the dealer would work with you if you had something signed by one of his employees-- unless Oldtimer blew his gasket before trying the dealer owner.

The BBB is free. If you don't atleast contact them, then your part of the problem instead of a solution. I would be irate and would have raised some serious hell myself.

[diV6]

Originally Posted by chevygolfguy

div6. You miss the point. You sue, you win - and then what? Are you going then have the car serviced at the dealership? Are you going to buy more cars from the dealership? What's more, attorneys cost money, lots of it. Under the common law in this county, the American Rule is followed, meaning each side pays his own attorney fees. They should have taught you this in law school. It is very rare for a court to award attorneys fees, even in the face of outlandish behavior by one of the parties.

Odds are the dealer has raft of attorneys on retainer who deal with these situations all the time. Oldtimer would likely get papered to death by the attorneys in discovery and if my guess is right about the paperwork, there is a total failure of consideration here. So Oldtimer will get summary dispo'd at some stage, but only after the dealership has inflicted enough punishment financially first. Proving damages is also a very real difficult aspect of this case. And if Oldtimer wants to test my theory, he should try to find an attorney who will take this case on a retainer basis. Would you? I wouldn't.

Which brings me back to the practical side of things. Live and learn, buy from another dealer and spread the word to everyone who will listen. Forums like this do just that. This is the same advise I would give Oldtimer if he were sitting across from my desk. But I would gladly take his money if he still wants to file suit.

I am not suggesting he not consult an attorney. Quite the contrary. Most lawyers will give you a half hour of their time for free.

Oldtimer, if you do consult a (reputable) lawyer, let this forum know what he/she has to say

I don't disagree with any of this. I admitted in my post attorneys are expensive and it was the last resort i suggested. I never suggested anything about the court awarding fees so I don't know why you're attacking my education over it. I just disagree with your legal analysis. If it was me, the furthest i would go would be to have an attorney make a phone call to the dealership. I wouldn't litigate this. If this was over a smaller dollar amount, i would be willing to take this to small claims court.

I just think a lot of people give legal advice, (just like a lot of people give medical advice or other types of advice) on the internet, and they don't have a full understanding of the field or dont know all the details to give the right answer. A good chunk of what you said about the law was oversimplified and borderline incorrect.

As far as what he gets, if he can get the court to order performance he gets a new camaro at MSRP, which is a little a hard to get in the current market. It's all about what he wants and how far he is willing to get it. If not, he gets whatever the enjoyment of the vehicle is worth for the time it would have taken to get it at another dealership, or the markup he has to pay at another dealership to get the car.

The consideration would be the money he would pay by the way. I can make a contract promising to pay you 10 dollars on delivery for a pair of shoes and the consideration is the 10 dollars. We cannot make a contract for you to give me a pair of shoes for free. That's a lack consideration. IUf the peice of paper states that olditmer would pay x dollars for a camaro, there is consideration. You have not stated it yet but I think you're an attorney. Mind if I ask what field you practice in? Your contract law seems as fuzzy as mine.

edit- i just thought about it more, and realized that if the paper allows oldtimer to opt out, then you are right, and there is no contract. But this is why I said that we need more details before we decide. This is why giving legal advice on the internet is stupid.

[wullger]

The phrase "acting in bad faith" comes to mind

[bballr4567]

Its so sad to see a Camaro faithful wait almost 9 months for their order and then get screwed by a freaking dealership.

[LS3SSRS]

this is crazy. how can a dealership get away with this? i've had this thought in the back of my mind ever since i pre-ordered back in october. if they try this on me, i'll do exactly what oldtimer did... tell them where to shove it, but i would still find another dealer.

[songsj]

Several people have referenced the Challanger and Mustang GT500 and how dealers marked these up over MSRS. This is true but where there is a big difference is that Few if any of those cars were pre-sold orders. I know most people won't want to hear this but I personally think GM f'ed up royally by taking early orders. They should have just built what they thought would sell and ship them to dealers as dealer orders. If there were too many v-6's to start with so what, they would have sold if people are going as crazy for these cars as everyone is saying. People could have just gone in and bought what was available just like other cars. They could have allowed people to order after the initial sales blitz so those who just HAD to have THAT ONE, could do so. I personally think this whole order and wait thing is crazy, and I used to order all my new cars in the 70's and 80's. If I orderd a car and waited 6 months for it and the Dealer tried to hold me up like that, I can't imagine how mad I would be. I would go wit the media. I do however agree that GM is not blameless. If they cannot control their ordering and delivery process any better than this, their should be no pre orders.

[Txturbo]

I bought my last vehicle from that dealership back in 2002. It was a great experience, but it wasn't the Camaro and that salesman is no longer there.. When I talked tto them about the camaro the week before pre-ordering started, they didn't have a clue what I was talking about.