another V8 owner damages ride.

[Dragnya]

Originally Posted by cam62

More people died. Just like seatbelts, although not perfect, more people died or were severely injured by not wearing them than are hurt or god forbid, trapped in a burning or sinking car by wearing them.

Using this sort of logic, you could expand it to .. what did people do before smoke detectors were available in their homes? Just because the technology wasn't there, or we were ignorant as a society doesn't mean we shouldn't embrace technology that keeps us all safer.

I'm pretty much done with this thread. Hopefully those of you that insist to not use tc and st when it's available will grow up and mature one of these days.

This sort of attitude is EXACTLY why my 19 year old son doesnt' drive my Camaro without my direct supervision. IE.. me in the passenger seat.

I used to think along the same lines as you guys when I was younger. No way will I let the law force me to wear my seatbelt. Stupid attitude.

I suppose I finally grew up and maturity took hold. The risk isn't worth it to myself, and more importanly others.

Just as I can't convince my 19 year old son that he takes unnessecary risks and myself and his brother will be devastated if he screws up, the non tc and st people here won't listen either.

Free country and not illegal to turn them off. Hopefully you are never in a situation where it could have saved your and other peoples lives.

I won't unsubcribe because it's an entertaining thread, but I won't be posting anything else.

I feel like I'm typing to a brick wall here.

Once again another guy who can't get his opinion across without making himself feel like he's the wisest man on the planet and name call and disparage another persons choice. When you do that it's an automatic redlight and you lose. And for the record I'm very mature ! I've been driving high HP cars for 28 years And to date have never had an incident. What's that make me the greatest driver in the world ? No ! It just means I'm a smart and mature driver even though I have the opposite opinion . This is why you don't judge other people by using your own experience as the supporting data. Everybody is different and has different needs.

[iHasCamaro]

I wasn't "bragging" about turning off tc/sc, it's just a fact. I find the systems extremely invasive and dangerous. They are not very well implemented and unsettle the car at the slightest hint of wheel slip. The Camaro doesn't have good enough sensors or quick/smooth enough braking/throttle modulation to drive better than me. I lived in Germany 2 years driving rwd cars in winter without driving aids, and even without snow tires. I would also regularly drive at 140 mph for extended periods of time. I've driven high-performance cars ever since. I've done many track days, even in the rain, without driving aids except ABS/EBD (which actually sucks in the Camaro compared to my old evo). In fact, I passed the ICSCC amateur racing license test the first time ever on a race track.

I drove the Camaro in light snow at about 3am in a parking lot just to see what it would do, and it didn't do well at all. My theory is that it lacks the accelerometers and yaw rate sensor, and possibly steering angle sensor to let the system work well. It seems to only rely on the ABS sensors, which isn't a good indication of driver intention vs results, and the the best way to correct the yaw delta.

Disabling TC/SC let the car become much more controllable. So I know for a fact my driving skills are better than those of my car, which has a very narrow view of the world.

In all my years of driving, my cars have been hit 3 times when parked, and 0 times with me behind the wheel. I've NEVER been in an accident in all my hundreds of thousands of miles on the road, and may cars have been in 3 just sitting there. That means statistically cars are infinitely less likely to be in am accident with me driving them than being parked.

So basically I think the TC/SC systems in the Camaro suck and don't control the car nearly as well as I do in similar situations. The ABS/EBD systems suck too, but not enough to warrant turning them off. If you are not an advanced driver, keep your aids on. But I turn them off because my skills exceed their capabilities, not because i'm a dare devil or out to brag or prove something. I use a seat belt and levee the air bags on because it's safer. I turn TC/SC off because it's safer (ESPECIALLY in the rain) for me to be in control of those systems.

So you people lecturing and jumping to conclusions, I would gladly put my skills to the test against you and your TC/SC anywhere under any condition. I'll gladly leave those systems on if they ever become better at driving than me, but the systems in the Camaro are epic failures to the point of being dangerous as far as I can tell.

[Kahdir]

Originally Posted by jd10013

about the dumbest argument possible. go look up the stats. since these and other safety features started showing up on cars fatality and accident rates have fallen like a brick from the sky.

I guess air bags, crumple zones and better built vehicles had nothing to do with that figure...

Let's all bow down to the mighty Traction Control for saving our lives, the heck with crash testing and improved barriers on the road.

You may want to check stats on number of accidents reported vs. fatalities...

Numbers of accidents have gone up year after year since records have been kept... part due to better kept records, part due to population of drivers increasing...
DUI accidents have dropped a bit, while distracted driver accidents is going through the roof!

I call B.S. on traction control and stability control as the reasons for reductions in automotive fatalities. Seatbelt laws, speed limits, airbags better built cars are much lager reasons... did we all forget the crash video of the old Malibu vs. one today... that is the direct reason for fatality reduction from automotive accidents -don't kid yourself otherwise!

[ffrcobra_65]

Those who continue to argue that it's cool to drive with the nannies off likely never drove the car hard enough to see when the humbling moment happens. Some of you guys talk like you can handle it but the truth is, you have no idea just like the noobs who thought they knew how to get the car back when it starts to lose control and found out the hard way. Internet pro drivers. Funny.

[Kahdir]

Originally Posted by Dragnya

Once again another guy who can't get his opinion across without making himself feel like he's the wisest man on the planet and name call and disparage another persons choice. When you do that it's an automatic redlight and you lose. And for the record I'm very mature ! I've been driving high HP cars for 28 years And to date have never had an incident. What's that make me the greatest driver in the world ? No ! It just means I'm a smart and mature driver even though I have the opposite opinion . This is why you don't judge other people by using your own experience as the supporting data. Everybody is different and has different needs.

[Dragnya]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Those who continue to argue that it's cool to drive with the nannies off likely never drove the car hard enough to see when the humbling moment happens. Some of you guys talk like you can handle it but the truth is, you have no idea just like the noobs who thought they knew how to get the car back when it starts to lose control and found out the hard way. Internet pro drivers. Funny.

Once again another guy who can't get his opinion across without making himself feel like he's the wisest man on the planet and name call and disparage another persons choice. When you do that it's an automatic redlight and you lose. And for the record I'm very mature ! I've been driving high HP cars for 28 years And to date have never had an incident. What's that make me the greatest driver in the world ? No ! It just means I'm a smart and mature driver even though I have the opposite opinion . This is why you don't judge other people by using your own experience as the supporting data. Everybody is different and has different needs.
.
How's the TC work on that kit car in your pic ?

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by SSBlack

I didn't even know what an "Fbodfather" was, so this isn't asskissing. But if the guy has been around them and working on them longer than most of us have been alive, I give his opinion a lot of respect.

And anyone that doesn't is showing their ignorance. No offense.

The Fbodfather is Scott Settlemire, the father of the F-body. Hence - Fbodfather. This is a link to his biography on the GM website: http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/...ott_Settlemire


You know in the Godfather movies whatever the godfather said something everybody agreed and did what he said. Well it's the say thing with the fbodfather. Around here is word is law.



Also, this thread is going in time out for a little while. There's no need for everyone to be jumping down each other's throats over driving with or without TC.