Continued: Lutz mentions engine options for Camaro -- 4 cylinder turbo a possibility

[Peet]

It strikes me that a four cylinder engine would be entirely appropriate in an entry-level Camaro. Historically speaking, hasn't Camaro always been available in different performance levels. We had base models, RS models, Z-28s, SSs, Berlinettas!?

Four cylinder Camaro = Secretary's car

I would suggest, and expect, that those of us that are drawn to this forum have more of an interest in the performance end of the spectrum and to us personally, a four cylinder Camaro is an absurd idea. But, looking at the bigger picture, we can surely also see where it might fit into a proper business plan.

[lm1power]

well i havent read the entire thread, so i dont know if anyone else has mentioned this, but this will not be the first 4 cylinder offered in a camaro. 1982 was the first year, and it was called the iron duke. It also had a whopping 98 horsepower, so this is certainly an upgrade

[Roflmao]

Just my two cents... but I think everyone here is discounting the v6 engine before they even see it. I am sort of new to the whole engine topic and the depths of a car, but 300hp is 300hp. I mean, my dads suburban has 300hp ffs. Yes I know there are differences between the engines and all that junk, but still, thats a good amount of power. If they can get a I4 to come close to that power as well? Wow who cares if they call me a ricer sellout whatever. I got a great looking car with plenty of power and saving me gas. Either way the v6 or a I4 option sounds like nothing to sneeze at. I understand everyone wants the v8 because... well bigger is better haha. But honestly the v6 sounds like a beast to me too, and GM is doing a great job by making the people who originally made these cars what they are now. You have to market to the younger generation with this car and make it affordable. Like someone else said, just drop a v8 in the sucker 10 years from now when you are balding and want the extra giddeyup.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by jims69camaro

one last thought: have you ever heard of someone buying a 6-cylinder camaro and stuffing a big block in it? sure you have. so, let them build the 4-cylinder cars. and the 6-cylinder cars. we'll stuff big blocks in 'em in 20 years.

That's exactly what I was thinking. If I ever have a son, once he's old enough to drive I'd love to buy a used by then "classic" 5th gen Camaro with 4 cyl power on the cheap, then with his help drop an LS## whatever is the Chevy V8 at the time into the engine bay, then turn it over to him, all while I bore him to death with my stories of my awesome V8 powered 5th gen.

[alnoe]

A few things to consider:

GM has to do what they can to appeal to the CAFE standards and also appeal to younger buyers. One way to accomplish both is to have a 4 cylinder Camaro option. With the styling the car has, how many future "sport compact" buyers may switch over and buy the Camaro? One issue I am sure they would face is trying to get reasonable insurance for a V8 F-body. Why not build a mod friendly 4 cylinder that let's them play and still be able to afford the car and insurance. It reminds me when I was 18 and looking to buy an 88 IROC-the insurance was near what my car payment was and I had a clean driving record! I am a die hard F body guy but at the time could not swing the payment and also go to college. Getting younger people into the f bodies will be good for the brand. As they progress they can step up and buy a z-28, etc.

Another consideration is also that the ECOTEC is a killer powerplant. The late John Lingenfelter raced one in his Cobalt, and it was rumored to make 1000+ HP. Pretty impressive. Before you hate on it, you should really see what potential there is. I could see 400-500HPbeing a possibility with a fair amount of mods.

I will be buying a v8 6 speed Camaro when they come out, so I am not a huge fan of the 4. But it does intrigue me to see what it could do for GM.

One last thing for me to say to let people hate on: What about AWD in the future? It would be great to have an AWD Camaro that made 450-500HP and could use every bit of it, and be able to put it down, any place, any time.



Al

[pirsq]

before you guys get your panties in a bunch think about it the more cars they sell the less likely the dealers are going to gouge on prices and the i4 will help with those sales.i4 or v6 convertable.... i live in florida i think about it the rent a car companies will order a few thousand.....selling cheap in 2-3 years... ...young people can not jump in to the big power v8 because paying 2-3k a year in insurance is not practical on top of a car payment.....but a turbo i4 might be cheap enought to swing.......and to those that say i4 isnt muscle or v6 isnt muscle need to get out in the world and read up on the new stuff........gm built a solstice with a stock motor and a retuned ecu that made 360hp on stock parts....stock internalls are good for almost 500 hp reliably so turbo and injector upgrade and you have a 450-500hp v8 killer... .... not enough call eagle and order a crank and rod package w/pistons now you can go for 500-1000hp with the right turbo... .. remember the essance of hotroding is to make what you have better and what better than to start with the right foundation

[DGthe3]

alnoe, pirsq: welcome. Very good points in your first posts.

[Emher]

Mentioned this to my dad and he said that if they get the 4 cylinder the have in the Saab 9-5 Aero that's a very good engine right there and easily upgraded to 300-400 hp. Just a thought.

[alnoe]

DGthe3-thanks!

I found this board through SEMA news-I work for a member company and am glad I stumbled across it-I am a member on LS1tech and pro-touring.com-can't wait for the 5th gens to come out

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that GM has to get YOUNG people to buy the Camaro, and that means make it affordable. The idea behind any car company, I would think, is to get buyers to buy their first car with you, then have a great experience, and want to keep buying products over the life of the owner. I think Honda did a great job with this in the last 10 years, and GM is finally "getting it" by adding personalization accessories, building better cars and trucks, and trying to regain market share that they lost.

GM also should look at insurance. I know it is an odd thing to bring up, but back to my '88 IROC analogy-I could not buy one because I could not afford insurance. If GM offered "reasonable" insurance to young, responsible drivers (I had a spotless driving record), it could really work well. Had I had the option back in '88 to get insured for a reasonable amount of money, I would have bought the IROC. I bought a truck instead because I could make my car payment, pay my bills, and still pay for school, food, etc.

I really hope they DO build a 4 cylinder Camaro. It will keep the car I love around longer, since it will appeal to a broad customer base and probably sell more, and another person pointed out that in 20 years, I can swap an LSX or whatever engine in it for my son, who is now 7.

Thanks
Al

[Roflmao]

Originally Posted by alnoe

DGthe3-thanks!


GM also should look at insurance. I know it is an odd thing to bring up, but back to my '88 IROC analogy-I could not buy one because I could not afford insurance. If GM offered "reasonable" insurance to young, responsible drivers (I had a spotless driving record), it could really work well. Had I had the option back in '88 to get insured for a reasonable amount of money, I would have bought the IROC. I bought a truck instead because I could make my car payment, pay my bills, and still pay for school, food, etc.


Thanks
Al

This is an EXCELLENT idea if GM could manage to make it work. I know insurance is a tricky thing, but it would definately allow more people to buy their cars. I know my biggest concern as a 21 year old driver at the moment is the combination of the car insurance and the car payment. Honestly, if GM was able to somehow allow me to have my insurance be a little lower while still owning a wonderful sports car like a camaro, I would be a customer for life in both insurance and vehicles. Ford did this type of thing with their finance company, this could be the next generation of that with offering a combination of insurance as well as a vehicle. I would think it would not be hard since GM makes all the parts to begin with and could also be the supplier/repair place whenever there is something to handle with insurance as well. holy crap I can't believe this idea whoever you are, you are a genius

[TAG UR IT]

^Agreed. Not a bad idea at all. Like the whole supplier/repair in one. It's like keeping everything in house.

[Roflmao]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

^Agreed. Not a bad idea at all. Like the whole supplier/repair in one. It's like keeping everything in house.

Yup, wasn't that what steel or some other really big industry did back in the early days with the tycoons? They cut their costs tremendously by supplying, shipping, and producing everything in house, allowing them to smash the competition and keep their customers happy. Run this by someone at GM since we obviously are employed by GM according to that other thread.

[Supermans]

You don't here the word "global warming" used by the "progressive liberals" anymore so now there is a concerted effort to replace all text in school children textbooks, newspapers, tv-ads etc to "Climate Change". Being one of the coldest years in awhile, I wonder why that is?. Anyhoot, the V8's are more efficient than ever and I do agree that more efficiency, power and most importantly reliability should be on everyone's list. However once the government steps in and suddenly the engine can't be too powerful, and they are forced to no longer be able to choose any engine they want to put into a car is ridiculous. We live in America, a Republic. However the more freedom's we lose to "Climate Change/Global Warming" fanatics, the less likely we will ever see those powerful V8 American muscle car engines in the future.

This thread is only the beginning. As the CAFE standard's get more stringent, we shall soon see the V8's as we know it disappear. In ten years from now, I still want to be able to buy a GROWLING V8 in an American car and avoid all the 4 cylinder/6cylinder Japanese type car engine's (nothing against Japanese people) with superchargers. There are already gas guzzler penalties, what more does Al Gore want? I'm quite sure the worst V8 engine in the world pollutes much less in a year than Al Gore's private jet does in a day... Why doesn't he go after the airline industry and set engine standard's to airplanes? Oh well, enough with my rant..

I am all for a 4 cyl engine in the Camaro as long as they still offer a V6 and a V8 priced accordingly. I just hope the next next gen Camaro will still sound the same and be as much fun as Camaro's of the past....Even when Jetson flying car's are around, I would still like the option to get a gas-guzzling throaty V8..

[TAG UR IT]

This thread is only the beginning. As the CAFE standard's get more stringent, we shall soon see the V8's as we know it disappear. In ten years from now, I still want to be able to buy a GROWLING V8 in an American car and avoid all the 4 cylinder/6cylinder Japanese type car engine's (nothing against Japanese people) with superchargers. There are already gas guzzler penalties, what more does Al Gore want? I'm quite sure the worst V8 engine in the world pollutes much less in a year than Al Gore's private jet does in a day... Why doesn't he go after the airline industry and set engine standard's to airplanes? Oh well, enough with my rant..