Z28 vs SSX

[Z28RockStar]

Sticking with the Z28 regardless, . . . GRRLS like cars with interiors.

[toehead93]

From what I can tell the only thing needed to make it street legal are air bags and a full compliment of seat belts (unless it already does). A roll cage to my knowledge does not make it non-street legal. I was referring to another post where someone had lumped the cage and airbags together.

I wish this car was tagged ZL1.

[Cmlloveless]

Originally Posted by tweeter81

Those are some awesome gains for relatively cheap and easy bolt-ons, I am envious. My lowly LS6 doesn't get gains like that...:(

I would say remove the FAST goodies (fuel rails, intake) and remove the Nick Williams TB and you would be down about 25 HP, that would put you at a net gain of around 55 rwHP (65 crank HP) which falls somewhere in the middle of your actual gains and what I predicted. (this comparo is kindof lame though since you don't have a cam, so we are basically comparing apples and orange, but its fun anyway)

At any rate, we know that the car will have upgraded heads as well which will easily allow that 524 number to be attainable.

Sorry wasnt trying to actual compare my gains from my parts to the gains from just a cam... Just trying to show that it is easily doable! All I did was open up some air flow and retune for that and the gains were amazing for what was added!

What I am trying to say is that with ported heads or at least heads that alowed more flow, you put in the right cam and the gains would be much more substantial than just a cam alone! I think 524 is doable with upgraded cam and heads. Im assuming that they would be reworking the intake a little and the exhaust a little for less restriction as well so...


As for removing my FAST products... at the present moment they may not be adding much to my gains, but when I finish with what my plans are I will benefit from them!

[2010_5thgen]

ill take the SSx over the supercharged Z28 any day. i wish that was what the z28 was anyways.

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by tweeter81

The points above are all valid, but I have a question:

Why would the car automatically be non street-legal just because it has a roll cage installed? I am pretty sure that I have seen show cars or magazine cover cars that have cages and they are still street-legal.

Edit: I saw a post from Russel on the previous page, but I don't understand how adding a roll cage that will make the car even stronger, and more rigid than stock would be a detriment to crash safety. I would rather get in a crash in a car with a cage than without, if I had the choice.

Either way, I am hoping that this car will be OK for the street because I will never be able to justify having a car entirely just for the track (especially a brand new $50k-$60K one).

depends on the tires, airbags,and seatbelts. thats probably what makes it not street legal.

[Russell James]

No way will a new car ever be sold with a roll cage like that added to it. Only if it was designed in from the start, like the halo bar built into a Corvette roof.

Putting a cage in a car completely changes the way it deforms in a collision. Doesn't matter if it's stronger or weaker, the problem is that it is different. The car was tested and certified with this structure, can't change it without retesting and certify.

The other aspects of a cage is - designed to protect someone wearing a helmet and 5 pt harness. The govt has HIC requirements. Head Impact Criteria. No way would a steel rollcage around the head area pass govt HIC requirements.

I think it's exactly what they say it is, a concept of how someone could race prep their Camaro and a showcase for GM Performance Parts. Probably a long list of items that make it non street legal as a new car; cage, racing seats, no airbags, wheels, tires, fuel cell, W/S and back glass look like it might be lexan .... the vehicle weight has been changed from the certified weight....

Once someone buys a car, or a magazine building up a modded car is a different story. It's then your car, do what you want with it. But the OE manufacturer has to meet all kinds of regulations (MVSS) to sell as a - New Motor Vehicle.

If that car was sold today, it would not come with a Title or Warranty. It would have a disclaimer, and waiver. And you would probably need 6 figures plus and your first born. If you've ever priced out race prepped cars like that, it's huge $$$$.

[Heliwrench]

Even if they made it with a cage and airbags... a cam big enough to make the claimed power isn't going to pass emissions in most of your states.

...But if they started with an LS7....

[thebrander]

Originally Posted by jfaber99

Is this due to heat build up under the hood?

Yes. Everything I've learned from my track buddies is that almost everyone who starts out with an SC or Turbo in their track car ends up going NA. Pardon me for the geekiness I'm about to demonstrate (and this is just my educated guess of what's going on, I'm not an automotive engineer): using the ideal gas law, the number of particles you can stuff into the engine is proportional to pressure and inversely proportional to temperature (i.e. N = constant * P/T). The FI mechanism generates heat in addition to the heat generated from the engine (plus the engine heat also heats the air stored in the FI mechanism). Now, if you get rid of the heat, you end up getting more "P" than "T" and therefore more horsepower. For a street car, this is not a problem. For a track car that runs close to redline for 20 to 30 minutes straight, you're talking about a LOT of heat and you get a whole lot more "T" than "P", reducing the number of air molecules that make it inside the engine, hence (sometimes dramatically) reducing the horsepower. Side note: heat ALWAYS makes it out. What varies is the temperature that the heat source has to achieve to "push" the heat from the heat source to the heat sink (the outside air). With bigger intercoolers and radiators, you reduce the required heat source temp to push the heat to the sink.

With that said, I've read that GM has done a phenominal job with the cooling system of the LS9 (and I assume the LSA is about as good with cooling). There is a ZR1 owner on the Vette forum that tracks his car and claims that he has not experienced "heat soak". That's just one guy though and I'm waiting to here from more owners (most of those guys don't like to beat up on there $120K cars... however, that would certainly be MY purpose for the car! ).

[ponycrusher21]

Originally Posted by Russell James

No way will a new car ever be sold with a roll cage like that added to it. Only if it was designed in from the start, like the halo bar built into a Corvette roof.

Putting a cage in a car completely changes the way it deforms in a collision. Doesn't matter if it's stronger or weaker, the problem is that it is different. The car was tested and certified with this structure, can't change it without retesting and certify.

The other aspects of a cage is - designed to protect someone wearing a helmet and 5 pt harness. The govt has HIC requirements. Head Impact Criteria. No way would a steel rollcage around the head area pass govt HIC requirements.

I think it's exactly what they say it is, a concept of how someone could race prep their Camaro and a showcase for GM Performance Parts. Probably a long list of items that make it non street legal as a new car; cage, racing seats, no airbags, wheels, tires, fuel cell, W/S and back glass look like it might be lexan .... the vehicle weight has been changed from the certified weight....

Once someone buys a car, or a magazine building up a modded car is a different story. It's then your car, do what you want with it. But the OE manufacturer has to meet all kinds of regulations (MVSS) to sell as a - New Motor Vehicle.

If that car was sold today, it would not come with a Title or Warranty. It would have a disclaimer, and waiver. And you would probably need 6 figures plus and your first born. If you've ever priced out race prepped cars like that, it's huge $$$$.

911 GT3 RS. Not exactly as intricate as the SSX's roll cage, but it's still a roll cage.

That being said, There is no way this is making it to production. Not as hardcore as this one is. Maybe the development that went into this will trickle down into a new model aiming at the Boss 302. Who knows .

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by Russell James

No way will a new car ever be sold with a roll cage like that added to it. Only if it was designed in from the start, like the halo bar built into a Corvette roof.

Putting a cage in a car completely changes the way it deforms in a collision. Doesn't matter if it's stronger or weaker, the problem is that it is different. The car was tested and certified with this structure, can't change it without retesting and certify.

The other aspects of a cage is - designed to protect someone wearing a helmet and 5 pt harness. The govt has HIC requirements. Head Impact Criteria. No way would a steel rollcage around the head area pass govt HIC requirements.

I think it's exactly what they say it is, a concept of how someone could race prep their Camaro and a showcase for GM Performance Parts. Probably a long list of items that make it non street legal as a new car; cage, racing seats, no airbags, wheels, tires, fuel cell, W/S and back glass look like it might be lexan .... the vehicle weight has been changed from the certified weight....

Once someone buys a car, or a magazine building up a modded car is a different story. It's then your car, do what you want with it. But the OE manufacturer has to meet all kinds of regulations (MVSS) to sell as a - New Motor Vehicle.

If that car was sold today, it would not come with a Title or Warranty. It would have a disclaimer, and waiver. And you would probably need 6 figures plus and your first born. If you've ever priced out race prepped cars like that, it's huge $$$$.

first of all dont get worked up. it is a concept. and secondly if it were produced, it would be a track only race car. not allowed for the streets. gm can do it. dodge does it with the viper ACRx. and the ACRx is $110,000. if chevy made the SSx i would imagine quite a lower price tag. still worth every penny.
ever heard of a mustang FR500? factory race car made by ford. ready to hit the track right off the assembly line. roll cage and all.

[thebrander]

Not sure if this has been posted yet:
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...track-concepts

[Kara]

Been awaiting the z28 a long time!!! Cannot wait!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by MG

I know I'm not the only one thinking about it......

The SSX will probably carve circles around it....and anything else on the road for that matter. The Z28 should be able to fly by it in the straights though. But on a full road course...I think it could come down to the driver and the nature of the track. Z28 would probably beat the SSX around the Nurburgring, for instance.

[2010_5thgen]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The SSX will probably carve circles around it....and anything else on the road for that matter. The Z28 should be able to fly by it in the straights though. But on a full road course...I think it could come down to the driver and the nature of the track. Z28 would probably beat the SSX around the Nurburgring, for instance.

why do you say that? the SSx has 520+hp. the lsa has 550+hp. ssx better suspension, assuming the z28 will not have polyeurethane bushings and pfadt sways and springs. ssx is lighter via carbon fiber components.
i say the ssx takes a z28 hands down. no contest.