Muffler Delete = less power? is it even possible?

[LDGn63]

i did the muffler delete today and i SWEAR that the butt dyno reads less power.
maybe less torque?

i cant hardly believe it could be LESS...


thoughts?

BTW... it is loud... borderline too loud for me... but it sure sounds like a beast now!

[JDP Motorsports]

These engines need back pressure to produce HP unless they are full blown race cars making 750+ HP. On my 2nd Gen I did a comparison, it was a 427ci BB. Without mufflers I made 515 RWHP. We installed Magnaflow mufflers and it jumped to 525 RWHP. We didn't change piping or anything, just cut the pipe and installed them.

Companies like Magnaflow spend hundreds of hours in order to produce a tuned exhaust system that will increase HP and torque through out the power band. I would suggest Magnaflow part # 16579, more information HERE.

I haven't seen dyno #'s for part # 16580 yet but I'm willing to bet it's less than the 16579.

What are you planning on Mod wise?

JP

[Legend]

Hmmm...I did the mod also and didn't feel a loss of power in the butt dyno?

I was trying to dyno mine before and after but the dyno was busy all morning and I finally told the guys to just do the mod.

I don't consider mine loud at all...sounds really nice to me.

[JDP Motorsports]

Originally Posted by I am Legend

Hmmm...I did the mod also and didn't feel a loss of power in the butt dyno?

I was trying to dyno mine before and after but the dyno was busy all morning and I finally told the guys to just do the mod.

I don't consider mine loud at all...sounds really nice to me.

I'm willing to bet you lost low end torque but possibly gain some peak high RPM HP. The throttle response probably dropped off as well but the sound might make it feel faster.



JP

[_GTO_]

Originally Posted by JDP Motorsports

These engines need back pressure to produce HP unless they are full blown race cars making 750+ HP. On my 2nd Gen I did a comparison, it was a 427ci BB. Without mufflers I made 515 RWHP. We installed Magnaflow mufflers and it jumped to 525 RWHP. We didn't change piping or anything, just cut the pipe and installed them.

Companies like Magnaflow spend hundreds of hours in order to produce a tuned exhaust system that will increase HP and torque through out the power band. I would suggest Magnaflow part # 16579, more information HERE.

I haven't seen dyno #'s for part # 16580 yet but I'm willing to bet it's less than the 16579.

What are you planning on Mod wise?

JP

Agree with you , but usually the rear muffler just for organizing the sound (air flowing) and the catalyst converter is the one who responsible for the back pressure , and look at the new magnaflow system with 5' tips it has no rear mufflers , maybe the mid muffler do the work idono , BTW when i deleted my rear GTO's muffler and add a CAI and a tune I gained a lot almost 35+ RWHP . Something wrong going with the camaro

[Legend]

Never thought about that MagnaFlow system but yeah...there's no mufflers on there either! And there are still 4 cats and two resonators in the system (at least mine as I only cut off the rear mufflers and welded straight pipes on with the original tips).

Hmmm...like I said, didn't feel a power loss??

[JDP Motorsports]

Originally Posted by _GTO_

Agree with you , but usually the rear muffler just for organizing the sound (air flowing) and the catalyst converter is the one who responsible for the back pressure , and look at the new magnaflow system with 5' tips it has no rear mufflers , maybe the mid muffler do the work idono , BTW when i deleted my rear GTO's muffler and add a CAI and a tune I gained a lot almost 35+ RWHP . Something wrong going with the camaro

Our 2nd Gen didn't have cats at the time as it is Pre 73'. You are correct about the converters though, they provide BP. I'm still not sure what the the muffler delete Magnaflow cat-back is going to make power wise although the X-Pipe isn't hurting anything there.

The reason I asked about future mods was because some people are going to run Long tubes W/O cats, mufflers will make a big difference in those systems as well. The other thing is the majority of the people aren't going to do a tune for Warranty reasons and they're just looking for a good tone quality and some extra HP that won't effect the Warranty.

The factory Camaro system is restrictive from the heads to the mufflers. I choose the street series 2.5" because I don't plan on making more than 500 RWHP and I like the sound.

JP

[JDP Motorsports]

Originally Posted by I am Legend

Never thought about that MagnaFlow system but yeah...there's no mufflers on there either! And there are still 4 cats and two resonators in the system (at least mine as I only cut off the rear mufflers and welded straight pipes on with the original tips).

Hmmm...like I said, didn't feel a power loss??

Every Magnaflow Camaro Cat-Back has a resonated X-Pipe that helps with the popping on decel and it balances the exhaust flow.

Part # 16579

MagnaFlow's Stainless Steel Street Series Cat-Back for the 2010 Camaro SS 6.2L V8 Features a resonated X-Pipe 11" Rear Oval Mufflers and Dual 4" Polished Stainless Steel Tips.



Sound file HERE

Here is the dyno graph from Magnaflow.

Gains NO TUNE completely stock except exhaust.
15 HP
18 lb-ft



JP

[LDGn63]

wow!
lots of good info... thanks guys!

we had dinner and then i took the fam out for a spin around the block.
no "power runs" but my wife said that it didnt seem loud to her and in fact it seemed quiter than it had before to me... i think im loosin my marbles!

the torque may only be noticeable a part throttle as i have not had a chance to really floor it hard.

it is a M6 and still has cats and resonators and you are right on the money.... i plan on a CAI but no tune.

i just couldnt stand my muscle car to be so quite (that problem solved!)

[LDGn63]

drove it to work this AM...
something is definately diffferent on the low end but the top end stilll screams.
maybe with a CAI and will pick the low end back up... i hope.

[D1BADZ]

That is quite strange, I did not feel or notice any power loss. Although by it being louder it does feel faster

Ive had a chance to really get on it and it still goes. wheter it loss or gained a few HP? But it sure sounds alive.

Im pretty sure there was a dyno stat where someone gained 12hp on the board somewhere after doing this mod . Maybe your dyno guy fritzed it?

[LDGn63]

Originally Posted by D1BADZ

That is quite strange, I did not feel or notice any power loss. Although by it being louder it does feel faster

Ive had a chance to really get on it and it still goes. wheter it loss or gained a few HP? But it sure sounds alive.

Im pretty sure there was a dyno stat where someone gained 12hp on the board somewhere after doing this mod . Maybe your dyno guy fritzed it?

i'm just talking seat of the pants BUTT dyno here... no facts!

i'm sure it HAS to be at least equal but throttle just doesnt seem as crisp...
hope i get that back with CAI.

i also may just be missreading the ol buttometer because of the new found melody emitting from the pipes. it just kinda seemed "STEALTH FAST" when it was quiet because it moved so good but was so quiet...

it sounds like a rabid dog now!

[Davis]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26993

Lawdogg149 has already dyno'd the stock vs muffler delete in the thread above.
There does look like there is a dip in the low end of the torque curve.
However, I don't see the stock run to compare.

[Vash]

Put some fresh oil in and make sure the gas is good. None of that 10% ethanol look for some sweet Saudi or Iraqi stuff.. the pure. I doubt it would make a drop because of eliminator.