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Old 01-19-2010, 09:09 PM   #1
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ModROTOR™ by NALLEN...

Representing the culmination of more than two (2) years of rigorous computer-aided design and analysis, the ModROTOR™ composite braking system is NALLEN’s most prized work-in-progress. It is dramatically lighter (up to 50%+), stronger, and more thermally efficient (up to 30%+) than any cast alloy rotor from the competition, making it, unarguably, the most forward-thinking automotive performance brake rotor architecture in the world.

The following images show the ModROTOR™ Cobalt SS/TC alpha model with optional materials/processing:





Keep your eyes peeled for updates on our website, including an in depth technical description of the system, availability, and projected pricing. Of course, I'll be posting extensive coverage of prototype production and testing, including photos and video, right here.

I'm prepared to answer any questions you may have, but you'll have to wait for a complete background until the website is updated.

Thanks,
Nathan

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Old 01-19-2010, 09:11 PM   #2
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Looks very nice
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:12 PM   #3
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Progress!

While we're waiting on material quotes, we decided to burn some 60% scale rapid prototypes on the Z Corp. We've already cut these several times in CAM, but wanted to run our fingers over it before making a commitment:







Problem with material is I'm competing for 17-4 with the aerospace and medical industries, both of which have deep pockets. The trick is locking in a supplier at the right size and price.

The issue with the core (shown above) is minimizing mill time. The vane pockets as shown are smooth, or .001" step. Bumping this to .003" step would decrease mill time considerably. The surface would be slightly more "rough", i.e. not perfectly smooth, but this would also increase surface area by ~3-5%, which is a good thing.

At this point, the plan is get the prototypes together in time for testing at Putnam in April, followed by their formal debut at Winged Warrior in May. Watch for a complete assembly mockup in the next couple days...

Last edited by nallen00; 01-20-2010 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Clarification...
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:14 PM   #4
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Ok seems cool but possibly overkill for a street car. What is the damage $$$????
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indpowr View Post
Looks very nice
Thanks! We're EXTREMELY excited to finally see this project coming together.

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Ok seems cool but possibly overkill for a street car. What is the damage $$$????
We originally designed this system for motorsport, which speaks to its modular architecture. 100% configurable. Aside from the obvious advantages of being significantly lighter, stronger, and running cooler, you buy replacement discs, not complete rotors, saving you on spares.

Pricing will vary significantly depending on the disc material: 17-4, 6al-4v, or CF. The Cobalt SS/TC system shown above w/ 17-4 discs should run in the $800-900 range at volume, $1000-1200 w/ calipers. I'm speculating, of course, since we haven't locked down the initial material costs...
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:40 PM   #6
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I think our calibers are larger than a Cobalt of TC. Could be wrong though..
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:49 PM   #7
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I didn't mean to imply any crossover. We can use the factory calipers, or supply them.

Last edited by nallen00; 01-20-2010 at 08:23 PM. Reason: General edits...
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:55 PM   #8
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I didn't mean to imply any crossover. We can use the factory calipers, or supply them.

In any event, only small changes are necessary to adapt this system to virtually any application. The fact that it's 100% CNC manufactured means that we can fit new makes/models in less than a day...
Well, I was saying $$ for the size and since the calibers are larger the $$ would be more.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:10 PM   #9
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Looks awesome... a blend between street and track... i would love to have 2 piece vented rotors! can these be resurfaced like standard rotors, or will they be like drilled and slotted rotors that can't be resurfaced?
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:33 PM   #10
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Totally modular... Interesting.

6al-4v, Titanium?

You guys are really thinking outside the box... Have you done any small scale testing?
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indpowr
Well, I was saying $$ for the size and since the calibers are larger the $$ would be more.
GM Parts Direct has the Cobalt's Brembos for ~$184, and the Camaro's for ~$84...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS
Looks awesome... a blend between street and track... i would love to have 2 piece vented rotors! can these be resurfaced like standard rotors, or will they be like drilled and slotted rotors that can't be resurfaced?
Thanks! It should be possible to turn them conventionally. Depending on the nature of the distortion, and because each disc has two (2) functional surfaces, it may be necessary to have them Blanchard ground.

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Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69
Totally modular... Interesting.

6al-4v, Titanium?

You guys are really thinking outside the box... Have you done any small scale testing?
Correct. All testing at this point is "in math". Among our services is simulation and analysis featuring COMSOL Multiphysics. We've run a 1000+ simulations over two (2) years, factoring every known force, both mechanical and thermal, in various performance and motorsport environments. Our first physical test session is scheduled for April at Putnam Park...

Last edited by nallen00; 01-26-2010 at 11:31 PM. Reason: General edits...
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:16 PM   #12
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I like keep us posted!
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS View Post
Looks awesome... a blend between street and track... i would love to have 2 piece vented rotors! can these be resurfaced like standard rotors, or will they be like drilled and slotted rotors that can't be resurfaced?
I've got news for you, the factory brembo rotors are 32mm thick. The minimum thickness is 30mm. There's no way we will be able to resurface our factory rotors, with only 2mm to work with, 1mm on each side.

Racing Brake already has 2 pc rotors for the Camaro SS. I put them on my car 2 weeks ago. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59008

http://www.racingbrake.com/CAMARO_SS...138-381-01.htm
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:37 PM   #14
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Manually subscribed.

I'll be watching.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:23 AM   #15
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17-4 is going to get reeeeal pricey buying in plate form. Plus it's very hard to find. Trust me, I'm quoting a job on it right now. Going to be much cheaper buying in round barstock. We machine alot of 17-4. Good thing about 17-4 is it's tough and you can heat-treat to 900 deg and it will hold up very well to fractures. 6AL Ti is going to get reeeeal pricey for you in that big of dia plus in the machining, but still would be cool. What kind of quantities are you looking at? We'll quote the machining for you.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Manually subscribed.

I'll be watching.
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I like keep us posted!
Thanks!

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Old 01-20-2010, 07:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g-townmach
17-4 is going to get reeeeal pricey buying in plate form. Plus it's very hard to find. Trust me, I'm quoting a job on it right now. Going to be much cheaper buying in round barstock. We machine alot of 17-4. Good thing about 17-4 is it's tough and you can heat-treat to 900 deg and it will hold up very well to fractures. 6AL Ti is going to get reeeeal pricey for you in that big of dia plus in the machining, but still would be cool. What kind of quantities are you looking at? We'll quote the machining for you.
Not sure about numbers at this point. After testing is finished, we'll sell a couple sets at cost to help generate awareness. At least one racing and one street app. Thanks for the offer, but we've built a solid relationship with our local vendor. Trust me, we've done our homework

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcwby
Racing Brake already has 2 pc rotors for the Camaro SS. I put them on my car 2 weeks ago. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59008
What's funny about this is that their patents popped up during our original IP search, as well as GiroDisc, Powerbrake, and others. We're not worried about Racing Brake. Not even in the same galaxy.

Last edited by nallen00; 01-20-2010 at 08:22 PM. Reason: General edits...
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:27 AM   #18
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http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6032769.html

That's closer to your project.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:44 PM   #19
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I've seen this one. Several problems, though - not the least of which are the 20+ blind holes cut into the discs directly opposite the friction face. That, and look at the way the dowels are installed. Any differential in friction would place a significant torque on these pins, forcing them to pivot on the ribs. And the ribs are tapered, no less. Their explanation for tapering the ribs is to normalize pressure drops between the rotor I.D. and O.D. Unfortunately, the aerodynamics of rotation are slightly more involved than simply tapering the ribs for constant cross-section. In fact, S.O.P. is to design a pressure differential between the I.D. and O.D. to drive airflow. Not surprising this hasn't gone anywhere...

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Old 01-26-2010, 08:44 PM   #20
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Fresh photos. April can't come soon enough...




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Old 01-26-2010, 09:52 PM   #21
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will you be planning on offering these in cross-drilled/slotted and zinc plated like some other rotors?
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:04 AM   #22
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only thing im not sure about is how the fins will work with the inner area blocked off. the inside of almost every rotor ive seen is open, allowing the centrifugal force of the spinning rotor to "spin" air through it. having that blocked off on the inside I dont see how they would cool very well.

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Old 01-27-2010, 12:31 PM   #23
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SH!T...! Why didn't we think of that?! lol

It isn't "centrifugal force" that powers this airflow. Here's a snapshot:

The cooling "engine" starts at spinup as the static air is "slung" out of the rotor, leaving behind a negative pressure, drawing more air. So what powers air out of the rotor? Imagine you have a door stop and a pinball. Place the door stop on a flat surface, and the pinball in front of the door stop. If you accelerate the door stop quickly enough, it will pass under the pinball, slinging it into the air. Now stand the door stop on its big end, and place the pinball in front of it...same result. Now move the door stop through an arc...same mechanics. But since the door stop is moving through the arc, only the door stop experiences "centrifugal force". The pinball is powered by the door stop. In other words, it's a rotor's geometry, not "centrifugal force", that powers airflow.

Because aluminum sheds heat so rapidly, we're able to rely on the turbulent air at the rotor O.D. to drive our cooling. This air is moving much faster than the rotor's core air, creating a difference in pressure. The result is a continuous sucking in, and slinging out of air.

Valid concern. What you don't realize is that we've witnessed every particle of air pass over and through this rotor - its energy, direction, and the heat it carries away. We've been through three (3) iterations, and hundreds of hours of design and simulation for each of them. After all that, and advertising it as being thermally superior to its closest competitor, we'd have to be complete assholes to miss something like this. No offense

A quick sketch to help visualize the above:

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Old 01-27-2010, 04:19 PM   #24
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I see where you are coming from. But If you figure creating a negative pressure inside the vanes, at a constant speed the rotor will keep a constant vacuum in the rotor. The only way I see the rotor "clearing" out is if it was starting and stopping, creating a cycle of negative and normal pressure. you can push the doorstop under the ball and sling the ball away, but thats ball is gone, and where does the next ball come from? I just see a lot of OD cavitation, and not much internal air flow. Id love to see some real world tests on a brake dyno though.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:42 PM   #25
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Interesting discussion and theory on the cooling process. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade, specialized in compressible fluid mechanics in college. I'd be interested in seeing computer models of this cooling process, using turbulent air to cool the fins. ltlaudio makes a good point about the ball being replaced.
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