3,000 Miles - No "Metal Shavings" - Anyone Else?

[chappy48]

Originally Posted by FNKNSTN

When was this written? Back in 2002? Sometime before this engine/technology existed?

I read that page a while back when people started receiving their Camaros and were curious about a "break-in period".

If it's soooooooo the right thing to do, then why is it a "secret"?

Like I said before, you can change your oil as often as you'd like, but is it necessary?

Does it recommend that you flush the transmission?

Does it recommend that you drain the rear-end and replace the fluids? - - - - I know the owner's manual says to do so if you're going to be doing some heavy duty competative driving.

Exactly what new engine technology are you referring to???? Are you an engineer at GM and have some inside knowledge?? Also, it's not a secret that you should break in your engine hard. Ask any engine builder or engineer and they'll tell you. The "take it easy" break in approach is straight from the corporate lawyers mouth.

[GEN-IV]

Changed mine at 500 and again at 1500, very little visible metal in the oil, the filter was also clean. GM seems to be doing a better job of getting the machining crap out of the LS motors. Some of what you see on the first oil change is due to inadequate cleaning of the bare block, etc, in addition to the normal break in debris.

[FirstLSK]

Originally Posted by FNKNSTN

If my oil temp sky rockets or pressure stays high from a blocked filter... then there is a problem.

Just FYI -- if anything your oil pressure will go down. There is a bypass valve in these oil filters. When the valve is open, you are not filtering squat. The bypass valve is always open when your oil engine oil is cold and it will open if the filter element becomes too blocked.

If you really want to know why frequent oil changes are advantageous during the break-in period (note, I did not say necessary), then I would suggest that you try to get in on an engine building project -- even if only to watch.


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[Pony-up]

If there was any metal particulate, it is probably in the oil filter. Try inspecting the filter when you replace it.

[Banshee]

Originally Posted by Doc

So... I too hated having to tell you that, but I'm sure you hated it even more having to read it.

Not at all.. a great anticipitory explaination. I would have elaborated but had to make up 2 days with the girlfriend after driving 1000 miles in those days at the first annual Camaro5 Oshawa meet and greet and was dead tired.

I have a hard time breaking things down into laymans terms when fatigue sets in.

[Banshee]

Originally Posted by Doc

How did the meet go? Saw a few pics somebody posted and it looked great to see all the colors in one place at one time.

Doc,

It went GREAT!

There are three threads. The original sticky on top and two others floating below. Martinrea (suspension/frame) and "Camaro5 invades..."

It was really wonderful. 30-35 Camaros..50 people plus, add the workers. Just right.

The feeling you get from seeing people look at you with 10 Camaros in front and 25 behind on the 401 is priceless. Semi's honking, thumbs up, kids in awe.

[surfgun]

How about the weight of your oil drained filters? The first filter is usually heavier in weight (metal filings within) than later oil changes.

[FNKNSTN]

Originally Posted by Number_9

You really shouldn't see shavings on the stick, even if they are there. I am told by one of the main Vette/Camaro mechanics at Classic Chevy that there is is a high-intensity magnet in the pan (the plug I believe) that will collect any shavings and prevent them from circulating. You'd only know upon an oil change if there are shavings or not.... and, with the tolerances and technologies in place today, you should never see any unless there is something more serious going on inside your engine.

Last note, the guy cursed me out for changing my oil at 500 miles, told me not to come back again until 5K... at 5K I was clean as a whistle. About to go in for my 10K (literally within the next week or so) and I expect the same result.

Well that's good news. Thanks for your input!

Still waiting for the answer to this question:

What Is The Specific Harm Done To The Engine By Not Changing The Oil Immediately?... Or After 500/1000/1500/2000/3000 Miles?

There are a lot of first-time new car owners, and brand new Camaro owners on here.

So I'm waiting for an answer from one of our resident specialists.

[ahart04]

Originally Posted by Banshee

Uh...

I changed my oil at 890 miles from the FACTORY with a what? Mobil1 filter installed.

There were metal shavings in the filter (I cut it open) and there was aluminum sheen on the top layer of the oil drained in the pan. You could actually see the metal sheen. It looked like the froth on the surface of a frappuchino.

I have been building engines for 25 years. I hate to break the news to you, but no matter what engine you build you will ALWAYS get residual metal on the bottom of the pan and suspended in the oil. Iron will typically settle in the pan and aluminum will suspend and is literally harmless for the most part as a particulate in oil.

You can't tell anyone ANY oil filter will remove 100% of any metal particulate in a brand new engine. With the 8.6 qt capacity of the LS3, you have a greater volume of oil and a much less chance of picking up heavier particles on the bottom of the pan.

Sorry, impossible.

Oil filters are effectually 99.4% efficient removing all particles of a certain micron size. This is true...AFTER engine break in.

After the first oil change I used Pennzoil Platinum and a K&N filter. There was still some metal left. I believe I still have the filter element if anyone wants pictures.

It stands to reason that people (as myself) that understand break in procedures (ring seating) will drive a new car hard. I did from day of delivery...and the reason those of us have increased metal in our filters/oil. As a side note, I had 168k on an LS1 engine that was purchased new with 5 miles. I drove it hard from the gate. Right before I sold her, and as a selling point, the oil analysis from Blackstone was excellent for the mileage on that engine.

And it passed emissions...and it burned no oil.

couldn't have said it better myself..

changed mine about 600 miles and broke her in nice and hard. from the first drive off the dealer's lot.

[FNKNSTN]

- Not to feel the need to carry a ruler in my pocket to prove myself to anyone, just in case I'm confronted.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND:

What Is The Specific Harm Done To The Engine By Not Changing The Oil Immediately?... Or After 500/1000/1500/2000/3000 Miles?

This thread isn't about break-in methods (BTW, I don't just believe what I read on some web page that some dude made up). This thread is specifically about metal debris in your oil.

We have a lot of wiseguys on here who know EVERYTHING about EVERY ENGINE. And they're saying "YOU HAVE TO (this)" and "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO (that)", but they're not saying what happens if you DON'T. Just a bunch of "OMG YOU GOTTA GET THAT STUFF OUTTA THERE!!"

If there are metal fines in the filter, then that's wonderful! It's doing what it does, and I'm not so curious as to take some tin snips to the old filter just to validate my changing the oil any sooner than it needed to be changed.

[mmbarberoilman]

I can not believe folks are talking about SHAVINGS on a dipstick, Are you kidding me? Any new car with new oil should not have shavings especially if you happen to use an OIL FILTER. Shavings? Use a better oil and filter in the first place and you would not expect to see shavings. Yea, another commercial. Amsoil 0W-30 in it at 2000 miles and changed the rear end too to Amsoil. That oil will remain in the car indefinately. Look up the Amsoil Dual Remote oil filtration system. It will be on the car soon. First of all I did not look for shavings from Mobile 1. Come on people, it is a better product than to produce shavings. Granted it is not even close to the Amsoil, but still it is a very decent product. The Amsoil is good for 1 year or 35,000 miles on the change. Of course this car will not see that amount of miles in a few years. Once you install a by pass system you forget about changing the oil!!! Period. Nothing new about it. On the market from Amsoil since early 80's. For those of you that cringe on those statements, first of all it is NOT possible with your oil or filters. Your manufacturer chooses to produce the products you use. They could do better IF they wanted too.

[UCI CamaroFan]

Any kind of debris in the oil, be it metal shavings or dirt, can and will cause harm eventually.

Just use your common sense man. What happens if there is debris in the oil? well, the oil lubricates the cylinders, and if the cylinder have some kind of debris rubbing against it, it will generate heat and then ultimately do damage to the walls of the cylinder. This damage may not be much at first, but it will eventually damage the car. This is why people get oil changes.

Now, I don't know why you felt the need to type in huge bold and colored letters in 2 posts basically back to back. Chill out.

[DarricSS]

Originally Posted by FNKNSTN

- Not to feel the need to carry a ruler in my pocket to prove myself to anyone, just in case I'm confronted.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND:

What Is The Specific Harm Done To The Engine By Not Changing The Oil Immediately?... Or After 500/1000/1500/2000/3000 Miles?

This thread isn't about break-in methods (BTW, I don't just believe what I read on some web page that some dude made up). This thread is specifically about metal debris in your oil.

We have a lot of wiseguys on here who know EVERYTHING about EVERY ENGINE. And they're saying "YOU HAVE TO (this)" and "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO (that)", but they're not saying what happens if you DON'T. Just a bunch of "OMG YOU GOTTA GET THAT STUFF OUTTA THERE!!"

If there are metal fines in the filter, then that's wonderful! It's doing what it does, and I'm not so curious as to take some tin snips to the old filter just to validate my changing the oil any sooner than it needed to be changed.

Have you ever changed an Oil filter and cross-sectioned it after an initial break-in at 500 miles? If not, try it. Then you'll know why.

But since you are already at 3000+ miles, i see why you are screaming in bright red letters now.

[ahart04]

Originally Posted by FNKNSTN

- Not to feel the need to carry a ruler in my pocket to prove myself to anyone, just in case I'm confronted.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND:

What Is The Specific Harm Done To The Engine By Not Changing The Oil Immediately?... Or After 500/1000/1500/2000/3000 Miles?

This thread isn't about break-in methods (BTW, I don't just believe what I read on some web page that some dude made up). This thread is specifically about metal debris in your oil.

We have a lot of wiseguys on here who know EVERYTHING about EVERY ENGINE. And they're saying "YOU HAVE TO (this)" and "YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO (that)", but they're not saying what happens if you DON'T. Just a bunch of "OMG YOU GOTTA GET THAT STUFF OUTTA THERE!!"

If there are metal fines in the filter, then that's wonderful! It's doing what it does, and I'm not so curious as to take some tin snips to the old filter just to validate my changing the oil any sooner than it needed to be changed.

there is no 'specific harm'....little pieces get stuck inside small/moving parts inside the head/block. they are not big enough to cause an immediate problem. if you do not change your oil soon, to answer your question, you run the risk of beginning your engine in what could be
an underlying chronic problem, only to expose itself after many thousands of miles....so its not like little pieces blow up or seize your engine. allthough oil filters work, they arent perfect, every car has damaging contaminants in the oil...technology works to reduce as much as possible. that being said, the advantages you get, and even the disadvantages can be too small to notice.

i only responded to prevent myself from seeing a font size 88 tomorrow.