VARARAM & Chuck CoW tune dyno results!!!!!!!

[Wacker]

Originally Posted by towmoe

I think you guys are missing my question. I know this was a tune-only unit and that one of you gained 6hp from your tune. What I'm trying to find out is what is the average HP gain from only a tune. Is it on only 6hp? If not I'm curious what it would be the average HP gain would be from a tune to figure out what the actual HP gains are from the unit. Thanks.

6-10 HP is the most you will see on a M6. When you do a header swap you will see a 20-30 HP increase. The cats on this thing are a killer. If you then add a CAI you will probably see an additional 15 HP. The way these mods work are very confusing. When you remove one (just one) of the restrictive stock parts i.e. exhaust or intake, you will see a significant gain. When you remove the other, you will only see a small gain. Just because a CAI claims 30 HP and headers claim 30 HP does not mean you will get 60 HP. When you pop the cork on one end of the engine, you really free up the other (stock) end to work better. When powerfreak swaps for headers next week he "should" see a 10 maybe 20 HP increase but no more. Whe I install my Vararam on my A6 I do not expect a 30HP increase because I already have headers and a tune. Hope this helps

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by Wacker

6-10 HP is the most you will see on a M6. When you do a header swap you will see a 20-30 HP increase. The cats on this thing are a killer. If you then add a CAI you will probably see an additional 15 HP. The way these mods work are very confusing. When you remove one (just one) of the restrictive stock parts i.e. exhaust or intake, you will see a significant gain. When you remove the other, you will only see a small gain. Just because a CAI claims 30 HP and headers claim 30 HP does not mean you will get 60 HP. When you pop the cork on one end of the engine, you really free up the other (stock) end to work better. When powerfreak swaps for headers next week he "should" see a 10 maybe 20 HP increase but no more. Whe I install my Vararam on my A6 I do not expect a 30HP increase because I already have headers and a tune. Hope this helps

+100

[axis]

Originally Posted by towmoe

I think you guys are missing my question. I know this was a tune-only unit and that one of you gained 6hp from your tune. What I'm trying to find out is what is the average HP gain from only a tune. Is it on only 6hp? If not I'm curious what it would be the average HP gain would be from a tune to figure out what the actual HP gains are from the unit. Thanks.

As stated above, you can't take total, then subtract one variable to find the other. It's tuning the extra airflow, that makes the difference. If you take away the extra airflow, you can't get as much out. If you add the extra airflow without the tune, you're still leaving some on the table. They work together very well but won't work as well without eachother, if that makes sense.

[Chuck CoW]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

Looking forward to the info on the header test Chuck, Do you still travel all over the World doing tune's?

Yes I do.... and I believe going back to China (again) later this year.

Chuck CoW

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I see no reason for you to step down.... I have read through this thread a few times now and I do not see you trying to discredit or bash anyone. All I see are valid questions and concerns. As a consumer I appreciate that!

x eleventy billion!!!

No need to disappear. You do what you FEEL you should do to continue in the conversation...(within the rules, of course). So far, I think you might be on the right track.

Originally Posted by mike@newera

It is very easy to have different results in testing intakes, I dyno stock cars quite often and doing 3 pulls in one hour can see a 5-9 rwhp difference sometimes depending on variables. We all sent our intakes in for testing to Ted Jannety, some outperformed others. Ted was very neutral in this entire test and I spoke with him before which is why I decided to send our New Era OTR kit in for him to do a comparison with the others because all in all I felt that the way he was testing each kit was going to deliver very consistant results, from an honest test. Maybe Vararam should send their kit in, or Chuck Cow can let Ted borrow this kit to see roughly how it stacks up testing it the same way he tested all the other kits currently available except Vararam, just a thought.

I'd love to see the results!


and on a separate note, I really appreciate everyone "getting along" thus far. There's no need for closing threads when it's a few that begin to spoil it for everyone. I don't like to delete posts....but, to keep the conversation flowing respectfully, it happens. Luckily, I have not had to do that yet.

Thanks again. To EVERYONE.



On a separate note (and not to derail the subject), Stainless Works dyno tested my Camaro...and stock, said it ran 406RWHP. Obviously that just can't be correct. Dyno's can be ....well....dyno's don't lie. But, turning dials can give you results that some people want. There's no way my car ran 406RWHP stock. NO WAY.

[Davis]

Originally Posted by Wacker

.... Whe I install my Vararam on my A6 I do not expect a 30HP increase because I already have headers and a tune. Hope this helps

Hmmm I guess my logic is flawed then. I thought, if I had a less restrictive exhaust, the better flowing intake would give larger gains over stock.

[Matt TuneTime]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

If you have not changed any of the settings in the dyno it should repeat repeat repeat without issue.

I guess you could just twist some knobs and change the numbers, I don't Know I don't have a Mustang, I have a Superflow, No Knobs.

I am serious when I say if we see more than a 10 Hp change from one pull to another we are looking Hard at everything not just the car, given our experience it is 99.99999% of the time the CAR .

I would not worry about 10 hp from dyno to dyno but 40 again I would be looking at the car real hard.

It's all good conversation.

Ted.

Ted the unfortunate reality is this community is spell bound buy numbers and we have a good amount of vendors taking advantage of that .

The community as a whole needs to know whats real ... I applaud you for trying to help them but some will not listen ... One of the main reasons I not very active on this board

Owning a mustang dyno and tuning on it [super-flow is only 7% higher then my mustang unit ... we have SLP down the street and have ran cars back to back on them dyno jet in my parking lot a mobile 224x is 13.5% higher ]

Yes there are knobs on all of them [ even yours or the superflow's i have dealt with]

But at some point you have to ask your self as a consumer is this real or a sham wow

While I'm sure the car made 39X whp I highly doubt it gained 32whp ...

Food for though

Chuck mentioned they swapped tach leads and I believe that is why there base line is so low. Looks Like the tach lead dropped out or had an issue. There is no way that Kr would drop that much on the graph even at max 10-12 degrees [ Yes I have had g8's ask for dyno tunes then after 1/2 pull realize they had 87 octane in the tank ] . You will usually see a V in the graph or a couple of steps . But to me the baseline graph [ a lot of base line graphs look like that when vendors are comparing there products ] needs to be redone . I been doing this for almost 10yrs and have never ever seen a stock graph look that bad on any dyno that was working properly.


Rant over
Thanks
Matt

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Matt TuneTime

Ted the unfortunate reality is this community is spell bound buy numbers and we have a good amount of vendors taking advantage of that .

The community as a whole needs to know whats real ... I applaud you for trying to help them but some will not listen ... One of the main reasons I not very active on this board

Owning a mustang dyno and tuning on it [super-flow is only 7% higher then my mustang unit ... we have SLP down the street and have ran cars back to back on them dyno jet in my parking lot a mobile 224x is 13.5% higher ]

Yes there are knobs on all of them [ even yours or the superflow's i have dealt with]

But at some point you have to ask your self as a consumer is this real or a sham wow

While I'm sure the car made 39X whp I highly doubt it gained 32whp ...

Food for though

Chuck mentioned they swapped tach leads and I believe that is why there base line is so low. Looks Like the tach lead dropped out or had an issue. There is no way that Kr would drop that much on the graph even at max 10-12 degrees [ Yes I have had g8's ask for dyno tunes then after 1/2 pull realize they had 87 octane in the tank ] . You will usually see a V in the graph or a couple of steps . But to me the baseline graph [ a lot of base line graphs look like that when vendors are comparing there products ] needs to be redone . I been doing this for almost 10yrs and have never ever seen a stock graph look that bad on any dyno that was working properly.

Rant over
Thanks
Matt

My Point Exactly, If you know you had a problem with the dyno or the car and the numbers just don't add up Please Don't Post them!
The Reason I Use a Lazer Optical sensor for engine speed, you can't mess that up!
Ted.

[Wacker]

Originally Posted by Davis

Hmmm I guess my logic is flawed then. I thought, if I had a less restrictive exhaust, the better flowing intake would give larger gains over stock.

That's what I used to think as well, until practical application proved me wrong. If you install a good CAI you will see a nice increase in HP. If you then tune it you will get a nice little bump. Then you install headers and you should see a minimal gain in HP. Another tune after the header install is really not worth the money IMO. If you reverse the process and install the headers first you will see a nice increase in HP, probably double what you saw when you installed the headers last. Again this is just my experience with performance parts and so far as my Camaro it is holding true. I first tuned the car, then went with a cat-back (no tune required), then went with headers (tune required for CEL only). Next will be the Vararam which will require a tune, according to Vararam, on either product for maximum performance. Otherwise I doubt I would see a huge benefit to re-tune again. These ECM's take advantage of the additional flow you give them on their own to a point. Once you set the AFR where you want it and bump up the timing, the ECM will do the rest for you. If really want to know your total HP gain v's going to a dyno multiple times...do a baseline, then add all your after-market parts, then get a GOOD tune on the same dyno same conditions.

[SRT10KLLR]

Originally Posted by matt55

Ill have to dissagree with that 1st part .(In my car Ive seen 40 whp from dyno at diff times on the same dyno , but trap speed was allways the same , it was a Mustang dyno . In the evo world the LOWEST and HIGHEST reading dynos are Mustang's with Dynojet being the most consistent)

Ive seen 2 SS MS make 365 or less on a Dynojet .

I think Ted would agree with you that Mustang dynos and Dynojet dynos will vary alot in there respective hp readings on the same car. And I think he would probably agree that the same car tested say in Colorado on a Mustang dyno then retested say in Florida on another Mustang dyno would also result in different hp readings. But I think you guys are not on the same page. What I infer from his posts is that running a car on his or any dyno on the same day should not have a 12-30 hp change from one run to another if all the testing varaibles are the same like engine oil, cooland & tranny temp, IAT's etc. In other words if you test your car and it comes back 330 hp then you test again with no changes to tune, temps, gears/tires etc. you should get very similar results time and time again.

So I think you guys actually agree with each other just have to look at the same data.

[SRT10KLLR]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I see no reason for you to step down.... I have read through this thread a few times now and I do not see you trying to discredit or bash anyone. All I see are valid questions and concerns. As a consumer I appreciate that!

Ted, don't go anywhere. I personally think your experience in the automotive industry coupled with your tuning and dyno operations gives you insight that most on this forum don't have. You can see a dyno chart and question its validity because you know exactly how they work. As stated above your questions were valid and you gave the tester the opportunity to reply to them and educate all of us in the process.

One suggestion for what it's worth. How about 5 dyno runs then throw out the lowest and highest readings. Finally, take the remaining three and average them.

[matt55]

Originally Posted by SRT10KLLR

So I think you guys actually agree with each other just have to look at the same data.

+1



OP
Whats the chance of seeing the before and after runs in MPH not RPM ?

[towmoe]

Originally Posted by Wacker

6-10 HP is the most you will see on a M6. When you do a header swap you will see a 20-30 HP increase. The cats on this thing are a killer. If you then add a CAI you will probably see an additional 15 HP. The way these mods work are very confusing. When you remove one (just one) of the restrictive stock parts i.e. exhaust or intake, you will see a significant gain. When you remove the other, you will only see a small gain. Just because a CAI claims 30 HP and headers claim 30 HP does not mean you will get 60 HP. When you pop the cork on one end of the engine, you really free up the other (stock) end to work better. When powerfreak swaps for headers next week he "should" see a 10 maybe 20 HP increase but no more. Whe I install my Vararam on my A6 I do not expect a 30HP increase because I already have headers and a tune. Hope this helps

Thanks dude, that's all I wanted to know.

[Matt TuneTime]

Originally Posted by SRT10KLLR

I think Ted would agree with you that Mustang dynos and Dynojet dynos will vary alot in there respective hp readings on the same car. And I think he would probably agree that the same car tested say in Colorado on a Mustang dyno then retested say in Florida on another Mustang dyno would also result in different hp readings. But I think you guys are not on the same page. What I infer from his posts is that running a car on his or any dyno on the same day should not have a 12-30 hp change from one run to another if all the testing varaibles are the same like engine oil, cooland & tranny temp, IAT's etc. In other words if you test your car and it comes back 330 hp then you test again with no changes to tune, temps, gears/tires etc. you should get very similar results time and time again.

So I think you guys actually agree with each other just have to look at the same data.

All mustang dynos have a weather correction factor that can be changed but there is a SAE box to check and if that is. Then your numbers should be very close with in 2-3% where ever they are tested ..