Cam price - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

morepowerjoe · 07-13-2022, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfdog SS

Do you guys do the oil pump and ls2 style dampener at this time or is it not necessary yet. My goal with the car is to be in the 600-650 whp range.

Yes know is a good time to replace the timing chain depending on how many miles you have (if over like 100k) and it's always a good idea to go to the dog bone dampener. The oil pump is more for piece of mind at this point but I would do it while you have the front cover off.

acammer · 07-13-2022, 07:25 AM

From your last post, I can see your goal is to be in the 600+whp range. That's not very hard to do with even a mild camshaft and the Novi 1500, so your options are pretty open as far as cam selection - you don't need to go crazy to achieve your goal. However, with boost already on board, you've got extra reasons to consider pulling the heads and replacing lifters - this is a great opportunity to get two birds with one stone.

Lifters are the single most common failure point I see in cammed builds. Yes, the OEM "LS7" lifters in there now are not a bad lifter, but I assume they've already seen some miles, and with a cam you're now asking them to tolerate more aggressive ramp rates, more lift, more spring pressure, and more RPM. That's not a recipe for stellar longevity, and one of the reasons that I will always recommend a quality, upgraded lifter with a cam swap even on a manual car without AFM lifters. Manual cars also always have that "unintended RPM" potential for when the TCM between our ears makes a mistake, which is another good reason to really have a well sorted valve-train.

In this case, it's a bonus, because pulling the heads to do lifters means that you can toss in a set of ARP studs and LS9 head gaskets to really firm up the seal on the combustion chamber. You're not looking to set the world on fire and stock bolts and gaskets would suffice at your power level, but it's an opportunity to bullet proof one more failure point. If it's a car you plan to keep and enjoy for many years to come, it's low hanging fruit.

As for your questions on oil pump and LS2 "dog-bone" chain dampener - yes, do both. Melling 10296 would be the upgraded pressure and volume pump. I would do a decent (Chevy Performance HD) cam chain while it's apart too.

A "nice" cam package with quality parts, lifters, gaskets, ARP studs and hardware, bushed trunnions, and oil pump is going to easily exceed the $2,500 mark. Gasp! These guys marketing $699 cam packages are not out to do you favors, or even make sure you've got all the parts you need - they just want your money. Can you slam a cam in an LS3 for about $1,000 in parts - sure. Do you want to? I guess that's up to you.

As far as labor - that's going to vary a bunch depending on geography, and what work specifically you're having done. The blower kit might add some extra time to put back together as well. I would very loosely guess around $3,000 out the door if the heads are coming off would be about average for labor + tuning.

Also, I'm not sure what you've got for a fuel system, but looking at the build now I would guess it might be something like 60lbs injectors and a boost a bump that you tend to get in the complete blower packages most manufacturers sell. That's not going to adequately support your future power goals, so it might be time to think about what you're going to need there to meet the increased fuel demand that you'll see with a cam and increased power.

At the end of the day, it really depends on how much you want to do it right vs. do it cheap - those two points are always going to be (very) opposed from one another. You could go minimalist on parts and have it slammed together and tuned by a "do it cheap" shop for probably $3,000 all in. Or, you could do it nice (right?) and spend double that. Just depends on how you like your stuff.

I'm sure you've heard it before: cheap, fast, or reliable - pick two!

pyroguy · 07-13-2022, 07:53 AM

I agree with what acammer said. The only difference I would go with, is instead of a GM timing chain, reach out to Katech for one of their C5.R timing chains. I don’t know of anyone who has heard of one of them failing, and they’re really not that expensive for good piece of mind.

acammer · 07-13-2022, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyroguy

I agree with what acammer said. The only difference I would go with, is instead of a GM timing chain, reach out to Katech for one of their C5.R timing chains. I don’t know of anyone who has heard of one of them failing, and they’re really not that expensive for good piece of mind.

The C5R is definitely a nice chain. It's pretty uncommon to get a chain failure with an LS, even the stock chains hold up pretty well - but the upgraded chains do seem to have better tolerance overall, and higher quality material.

Surfdog SS · 07-13-2022, 08:43 AM

I'm the original owner of the car and it has around 42k miles on it. I barely put 5k miles on it a year anymore as it's not my daily. I think I put 1-2k on it last year as for miles on the valve train. Yes the kit bap and injectors were used, currently at 76% duty and with the cam should be maxed out on that setup. I may throw in a zl1 pump but before I do that I need to decide if I'm ever going to go e85.
I'm looking to go with the BTR centrifugal depending on which shop and/if I do it myself. It sounds like the shop that quoted me 4500 isn't doing half of that other stuff so would probably be up in the 6-7k range for them to it. If I was going to do it myself I really didn't want to drop the oil pan to do the pump. I guess I'll have to look at it all and see what I'm willing to get into.

CamaroCracka · 07-13-2022, 01:15 PM

I didn't do the pump on the first build of the turbo car and got away with it. I left the vert engine stock and the pump quit. I did a cam install with when I replaced the pump and ended up spinning a bearing after about 100 miles after buttoning it up. It a PITA to get the drop the pan an inch or so and put the pickup back on, but it depends on your risk tolerance.

Surfdog SS · 07-14-2022, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroCracka

Are they insisting on pulling the heads for the swap?

figure $500ish for the tune and about $1500ish for the labor and then the price of the parts. Some shops have lost their minds since Covid. $4500 is a little high, but if a big shop like Redline, that is what you can expect.

I did the swap in a weekend taking my time, but I did not do springs since it was a lower lift cam. My guy did the second one for around 2k with a retune, but most guys would be afraid of his shop as it's small, crowded and all the parking is filled with project cars.

The shop that did my supercharger gave me a rough estimate of 2200 for a basic cam install and tune. I'm not sure if thats with a trunion upgrade. I'll probably just wait for them or do it myself. Won't be saving much doing myself at that price.

CamaroCracka · 07-14-2022, 03:47 PM

If you use CHE bushings, the trunion upgrade is pretty easy. Took maybe a couple hours taking my time. I do have a press through.

07-13-2022, 07:25 AM	#16
acammer GPI Sales Consultant Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS SGM Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Weedsport, NY Posts: 3,023 View My Garage	From your last post, I can see your goal is to be in the 600+whp range. That's not very hard to do with even a mild camshaft and the Novi 1500, so your options are pretty open as far as cam selection - you don't need to go crazy to achieve your goal. However, with boost already on board, you've got extra reasons to consider pulling the heads and replacing lifters - this is a great opportunity to get two birds with one stone. Lifters are the single most common failure point I see in cammed builds. Yes, the OEM "LS7" lifters in there now are not a bad lifter, but I assume they've already seen some miles, and with a cam you're now asking them to tolerate more aggressive ramp rates, more lift, more spring pressure, and more RPM. That's not a recipe for stellar longevity, and one of the reasons that I will always recommend a quality, upgraded lifter with a cam swap even on a manual car without AFM lifters. Manual cars also always have that "unintended RPM" potential for when the TCM between our ears makes a mistake, which is another good reason to really have a well sorted valve-train. In this case, it's a bonus, because pulling the heads to do lifters means that you can toss in a set of ARP studs and LS9 head gaskets to really firm up the seal on the combustion chamber. You're not looking to set the world on fire and stock bolts and gaskets would suffice at your power level, but it's an opportunity to bullet proof one more failure point. If it's a car you plan to keep and enjoy for many years to come, it's low hanging fruit. As for your questions on oil pump and LS2 "dog-bone" chain dampener - yes, do both. Melling 10296 would be the upgraded pressure and volume pump. I would do a decent (Chevy Performance HD) cam chain while it's apart too. A "nice" cam package with quality parts, lifters, gaskets, ARP studs and hardware, bushed trunnions, and oil pump is going to easily exceed the $2,500 mark. Gasp! These guys marketing $699 cam packages are not out to do you favors, or even make sure you've got all the parts you need - they just want your money. Can you slam a cam in an LS3 for about $1,000 in parts - sure. Do you want to? I guess that's up to you. As far as labor - that's going to vary a bunch depending on geography, and what work specifically you're having done. The blower kit might add some extra time to put back together as well. I would very loosely guess around $3,000 out the door if the heads are coming off would be about average for labor + tuning. Also, I'm not sure what you've got for a fuel system, but looking at the build now I would guess it might be something like 60lbs injectors and a boost a bump that you tend to get in the complete blower packages most manufacturers sell. That's not going to adequately support your future power goals, so it might be time to think about what you're going to need there to meet the increased fuel demand that you'll see with a cam and increased power. At the end of the day, it really depends on how much you want to do it right vs. do it cheap - those two points are always going to be (very) opposed from one another. You could go minimalist on parts and have it slammed together and tuned by a "do it cheap" shop for probably $3,000 all in. Or, you could do it nice (right?) and spend double that. Just depends on how you like your stuff. I'm sure you've heard it before: cheap, fast, or reliable - pick two! __________________ GPI Max Package 2.0: Brodix BR7 heads/GPI porting, MAX3 cam, ST2116LSR, BSR Max Lift rockers, LS7 LSXR with 103mm TB, Vararam OTR, Mcleod RXT, G-Force/Strange 9" IRS setup with 4.63 gear. 551whp, 11.1@124mph. *Got a question about a GPI product? Feel free to shoot me a message!*

07-13-2022, 07:53 AM	#17
pyroguy Keeper of “THE list” Drives: ABM #832 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: GA Posts: 7,117 View My Garage	I agree with what acammer said. The only difference I would go with, is instead of a GM timing chain, reach out to Katech for one of their C5.R timing chains. I don’t know of anyone who has heard of one of them failing, and they’re really not that expensive for good piece of mind. __________________ '10 Camaro 2SS/RS \| Aqua Blue #832 of 3,903 \| Silver Stripes Check out my build thread

07-13-2022, 08:43 AM	#19
Surfdog SS Drives: 2015 SS Black/Black Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Florida Posts: 159	I'm the original owner of the car and it has around 42k miles on it. I barely put 5k miles on it a year anymore as it's not my daily. I think I put 1-2k on it last year as for miles on the valve train. Yes the kit bap and injectors were used, currently at 76% duty and with the cam should be maxed out on that setup. I may throw in a zl1 pump but before I do that I need to decide if I'm ever going to go e85. I'm looking to go with the BTR centrifugal depending on which shop and/if I do it myself. It sounds like the shop that quoted me 4500 isn't doing half of that other stuff so would probably be up in the 6-7k range for them to it. If I was going to do it myself I really didn't want to drop the oil pan to do the pump. I guess I'll have to look at it all and see what I'm willing to get into. __________________ 2015 2SS M6 Stainless Power LT header w/ hf cats, NPP axle backs, ECS Novi 1500 SC, ATI 10% UD, BMR 1.25 springs, trailing arms, and bushings, short thow shifter, Z28 replica rims, BTR stage 2 centrifugal cam, zl1 pump, FIC 1000, dsx aux pump and flex fuel, monster triple disc.

07-13-2022, 01:15 PM	#20
CamaroCracka Drives: 2010 Turbo LS3 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 3,053	I didn't do the pump on the first build of the turbo car and got away with it. I left the vert engine stock and the pump quit. I did a cam install with when I replaced the pump and ended up spinning a bearing after about 100 miles after buttoning it up. It a PITA to get the drop the pan an inch or so and put the pickup back on, but it depends on your risk tolerance. __________________ 2010 SS - Kind of an On3 kit, CTR 78/80, CompCam 239/251 620/632 122+4, E85, Z28 suspension and ZL1 diff with Outlaw axles. Gen6 ZL1 brakes. 2011 Vert - 416/w 230/236 .612/.602 115lsa, 1LE suspension w/32mm rear bar. Z28 diff. Gen6 ZL1 brakes.

07-14-2022, 03:47 PM	#22
CamaroCracka Drives: 2010 Turbo LS3 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 3,053	If you use CHE bushings, the trunion upgrade is pretty easy. Took maybe a couple hours taking my time. I do have a press through. __________________ 2010 SS - Kind of an On3 kit, CTR 78/80, CompCam 239/251 620/632 122+4, E85, Z28 suspension and ZL1 diff with Outlaw axles. Gen6 ZL1 brakes. 2011 Vert - 416/w 230/236 .612/.602 115lsa, 1LE suspension w/32mm rear bar. Z28 diff. Gen6 ZL1 brakes.