M6 10.1 passes NPB

[acammer]

Originally Posted by ZMEnow

Yep NLS was great at stock HP, but higher HP seems to excessively wear the clutch and everything else behind it. Replacing the clutch on these by yourself makes you stop it.

Agree on the NLS have potential for carnage - been there done that! I've done some data logging and testing on this subject, and my finding is that the throttle foot, if managed correctly, is not a factor in shift time, it still comes down to what your clutch foot and hands do, and what your transmission will put up with for shift speed. Turbo cars are a different deal, but for NA and blown stuff, I think NLS isn't worth the trouble, and you can modulate you shift aggressiveness a lot better when you work your throttle foot alongside the clutch foot.

I can get my shifts down in the 150ms or less range, but the trans is not happy with that, and becomes inconsistent. If I relax them to about 250ms, they are very consistent. Giving up 0.4s of time accelerating with the more deliberate shifts definitely will hurt ET a little, and mph for sure. But, I don't get all that many opportunities to take the tree, and I hate aborted passes due to a missed shift - so I'm with you on erring on the side of cautious consistency.

I hope to have more opportunities to drag next season, and as it progresses I definitely will start to push the envelop on shift speed. I'm not sure I'm done tweaking on the clutch/hydraulic system/clutch stop either. I made some real gains on shift consistency and speed late last season (after my last track outing) by giving myself a little more clutch pedal travel than I thought I needed. I suspect that with dynamic racing conditions and running temps I need a little more travel on the clutch than I find I do when setting the clutch stop with the car cold and under static conditions in the shop.

This is what a slow NA car with a lot of gear looks like from inside (skip to 1:10 for the good stuff):

[Whisper1]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

Thanks Buddy

Congrats, that's really flying. I tried shifting an LS1 car with the T-56 and archaic clutch hydraulics. I threw a a lot of money at the car including the clutch, rear end, motor, and clutch hydraulics. Epic fail and taught me that I never would be able to shift a car (never missed a shift in years on the street and made about 2 clean passes out of 50 tries at the strip). Anyway, much respect for how hard it is to accomplish that feat. So I have the A6 and I also have an A8 HC Redeye. So I'm always king of comparing the platforms even though it's apples and oranges and a lot more money involved in a stock 800 Hp car. So, any idea what kind of crank or RWHP you are pushing to get that M6 to trap 138 MPH? That's a big number and a HCRE will trap around 130 on a tire but to get to 138 is going to take some work as well. If I had a cookie cutter way to get my A6 into the low 11's and maybe 125-126 mph and not break the bank I might do it. Seems like everyone is doing the E-85 and I haven't quite warmed up to that conversion and then switching back and forth to 93. Just rambling, great time and great effort rowing those gears and any HP estimate is appreciated,

[2NASSTY]

Thanks Man. I moved to this ZL1 Manual LSA from an Auto CTS-V for the exact opposite reasons lol.

I was actually a passenger driving the Caddy down the strip. Although it was impressive, the Car was doing most of the work. It ran a best of 10.69 at 130 in -2000 DA and was probably putting down around 600-625 rwh on that pass. The Caddy was never on a dyno.

This ZL1 is making somewhere between 825-840 rwh depending on DA. I hate dyno numbers. It's just a tuning aid IMO. The ZL1 has trapped 141 in -DA

If this rwh was in the Caddy, it would be deep in 9's trapping 142-145 MPH or higher depending on DA. The Caddy is 300 lbs heavier than our ZL1s

[Whisper1]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

Thanks Man. I moved to this ZL1 Manual LSA from an Auto CTS-V for the exact opposite reasons lol.

I was actually a passenger driving the Caddy down the strip. Although it was impressive, the Car was doing most of the work. It ran a best of 10.69 at 130 in -2000 DA and was probably putting down around 600-625 rwh on that pass. The Caddy was never on a dyno.

This ZL1 is making somewhere between 825-840 rwh depending on DA. I hate dyno numbers. It's just a tuning aid IMO. The ZL1 has trapped 141 in -DA

If this rwh was in the Caddy, it would be deep in 9's trapping 142-145 MPH or higher depending on DA. The Caddy is 300 lbs heavier than our ZL1s

Got it. So your just a person that enjoys the shifting and the challenge it presents at the track. I prefer a manual on the street as well but for the novice you can really get your feelings hurt at the strip. So figuring 15% parasitic loss you would be around 970 crank HP or a a bit more. That's a mouthful.
I weighed mine the day I bought it and it was 4120 with a quarter tank of fuel. No dyno, but being an A6 with a Rotofab I guess it's 475-490 at the tire. Seems like I need another 80-90 HP to trap over 125 mph. I know there's 100 different ways to do that - just need to dig into it. Thanks for all the information. Very helpful. Just as an aside, they closed Atlanta International Raceway about a year ago and that pushed my drive to a 1/4 mile track from 45 to 90 minutes. Real PITA not having a track close by to validate times and changes to your car. Good luck and hope yours holds together.

[ZMEnow]

Originally Posted by Whisper1

Got it. So your just a person that enjoys the shifting and the challenge it presents at the track. I prefer a manual on the street as well but for the novice you can really get your feelings hurt at the strip. So figuring 15% parasitic loss you would be around 970 crank HP or a a bit more. That's a mouthful.
I weighed mine the day I bought it and it was 4120 with a quarter tank of fuel. No dyno, but being an A6 with a Rotofab I guess it's 475-490 at the tire. Seems like I need another 80-90 HP to trap over 125 mph. I know there's 100 different ways to do that - just need to dig into it. Thanks for all the information. Very helpful. Just as an aside, they closed Atlanta International Raceway about a year ago and that pushed my drive to a 1/4 mile track from 45 to 90 minutes. Real PITA not having a track close by to validate times and changes to your car. Good luck and hope yours holds together.

I was able to get a 124.95 with the JRE 125 package with an M6.

[2NASSTY]

Originally Posted by ZMEnow

I was able to get a 124.95 with the JRE 125 package with an M6.

Niice!

[2NASSTY]

Originally Posted by Whisper1

Got it. So your just a person that enjoys the shifting and the challenge it presents at the track. I prefer a manual on the street as well but for the novice you can really get your feelings hurt at the strip. So figuring 15% parasitic loss you would be around 970 crank HP or a a bit more. That's a mouthful.
I weighed mine the day I bought it and it was 4120 with a quarter tank of fuel. No dyno, but being an A6 with a Rotofab I guess it's 475-490 at the tire. Seems like I need another 80-90 HP to trap over 125 mph. I know there's 100 different ways to do that - just need to dig into it. Thanks for all the information. Very helpful. Just as an aside, they closed Atlanta International Raceway about a year ago and that pushed my drive to a 1/4 mile track from 45 to 90 minutes. Real PITA not having a track close by to validate times and changes to your car. Good luck and hope yours holds together.

You’re welcome Man! I think your numbers are accurate. I actually miss driving around the street more at that power level. When you start adding boost past 12 psi in these cars you add heat, then more cooling mods (ice tank), E85, Meth injection and then start stressing the factory block internals around the 750-800 rwh level.

The other motivation to switch to a manual and race at the track is getting out of the power game and $$$ with Autos. The CTSV Guys are deep in the 9s and high 8s on the factory blower. Dedicated Race Cars at that point.

And I hear you about track closures like Atlanta Dragway. Miss that place.

[eLeSthree]

Damn nice job! I was only able to hit the track once before it closed down and made about 6 or 7 passes, but I’ll tell you what, it was a lot harder than I thought it would be to launch a manual car. I just couldnt do better than a 2.0 60, which is obviously terrible.

Funny you mention the ctsv. I just did the opposite move and went from the M6 camaro into the A6 V. Best I could do in the camaro a 10.4 @ 147 with a 2.0 60’. Seems like the auto V guys can get into the lower 10s with a cam, ported blower and a tire. So half of the horsepower for a quicker ET. I really enjoy driving the V on the street.

[2NASSTY]

Thanks Man. I remember following you with your Dave Steck triple pump in-tank R&D testing threads. 147 traps!! Good God

You should have stuck with it. I still struggle with consistent launches. The more power you add the more you have to add suspension mods. Then test, test, test... And break a bunch a shit on the way!

After you get it all to work, its a Blast though

The CTSV may be one of the best engineered and overbuilt drivelines that GM has produced. Totally different Ride from the 5th Gen ZL1 though with the same driveline. Think of a Sherman Tank on a diet that can handle with downforce.

This may be the best handling Car I have ever had with the 3rd gen Mag Ride. The Menscer rear coil overs took some of that away unfortunately, but not much. That is what got my sixty foot back. You probably had a mid 9 sec manual with the suspension all sorted out.

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

Thanks Man. I remember following you with your Dave Steck triple pump in-tank R&D testing threads. 147 traps!! Good God

You should have stuck with it. I still struggle with consistent launches. The more power you add the more you have to add suspension mods. Then test, test, test... And break a bunch a shit on the way!

After you get it all to work, its a Blast though

The CTSV may be one of the best engineered and overbuilt drivelines that GM has produced. Totally different Ride from the 5th Gen ZL1 though with the same driveline. Think of a Sherman Tank on a diet that can handle with downforce.

This may be the best handling Car I have ever had with the 3rd gen Mag Ride. The Menscer rear coil overs took some of that away unfortunately, but not much. That is what got my sixty foot back. You probably had a mid 9 sec manual with the suspension all sorted out.

I wish PBIR didn't close down, I might have kept it. Bradenton is just too far for me not having a trailer. Someone wanted to buy it and I wanted Air conditioned seats, haha.

Good luck

[The SS Godfather]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

Performance Mods: upper/lower pulley, factory crank, heads, blower and shifter. Monster triple disc clutch. Fore dual pump full return, Meth, E85, PNR 5 Gallon ice tank with EMP pump. Corsa Exhaust, Rear Menscer Coil overs, BMR suspension, Hoosier Slicks & Skinnies, LT, CAM, 102 TB, Cal Hartline Tune, weight 4100 lbs
Category submitted for: Please List the Category or Category #15
R/T..........0.327
60'.............1.558
330'...........4.320
660'...........6.599
660’ mph...109.76
1000'..........8.530
1320'..........10.166
1320’ mph…137.74
Bradenton 1/12/23
Weather conditions 500 DA

Dam!!! Killer gear changing too!! Beautiful !!!!

[mlee]

That would take the prize at Camaro Fest in the M6 shootout.

Awesome run!!!

[2NASSTY]

Originally Posted by The SS Godfather

Dam!!! Killer gear changing too!! Beautiful !!!!

Thanks Man. Definitely can improve the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts

Originally Posted by mlee

That would take the prize at Camaro Fest in the M6 shootout.

Awesome run!!!

Thanks Man. Not sure though at that Bowling Green altitude and hot air. Probably a mid 10 sec pass in the 133-134 MPH range

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by 2NASSTY

And I hear you about track closures like Atlanta Dragway. Miss that place.

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

I wish PBIR didn't close down, I might have kept it. Bradenton is just too far for me not having a trailer.

Yes! It really stinks that tracks are closing. I'm in the same boat. My hour drive to Atlanta Dragway was wonderful. No trailer needed, if it breaks, it's a "short" tow back home. Now, my closest decent quarter track is 3.5 to 4 hours away. :(

The only other option is "Mexico," which I don't like to do.