2012 SS N/A Build

[morepowerjoe]

Originally Posted by SlowLS1

Nice find, not something you expect to be the problem. Smart!

Yeah thanks, that was my last hope. After that I was starting to think I had a crack in the block. lol.

[morepowerjoe]

I've been doing VVE and Virtual Torque tuning. Let me tell you it is a bit complicated but if you want to take all the guess work out then you can just pay someone (like I did) to give you a hand. I've been working with this guy I found on the hp tuners forum that is absolutely amazing at this stuff. It's all remote tuning. As far as the results, they are amazing. I think I've picked up some serious power from this tuning and the best thing about it is that it runs SO much better than it did especially at idle in gear. So, I encourage you to explore this tuning if you haven't already because you will be impressed with the results if you've never done this type of tuning before.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by morepowerjoe

I've been doing VVE and Virtual Torque tuning. Let me tell you it is a bit complicated but if you want to take all the guess work out then you can just pay someone (like I did) to give you a hand. I've been working with this guy I found on the hp tuners forum that is absolutely amazing at this stuff. It's all remote tuning. As far as the results, they are amazing. I think I've picked up some serious power from this tuning and the best thing about it is that it runs SO much better than it did especially at idle in gear. So, I encourage you to explore this tuning if you haven't already because you will be impressed with the results if you've never done this type of tuning before.

VVE is just speed density but processed with equations rather than straight off a reference table. I agree that having the SD/VVE dialed in and run blended with MAF is a superior result, specifically in terms of response to lower speed operation and transients. In terms of actual power, its worth zero over what a proper MAF-only tune has to offer.

[morepowerjoe]

Oh ok. Well what I really know is that idle quality is greatly improved and it feels so much more responsive. Also with the virtual torque dialed in it makes the transmission shift a lot better.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by morepowerjoe

Oh ok. Well what I really know is that idle quality is greatly improved and it feels so much more responsive. Also with the virtual torque dialed in it makes the transmission shift a lot better.

Yea - people hear VVE and they think it's some big intimidating thing. Which, it would be, if we didn't have tools like the HPTuners VVE editor, that basically makes it no different than just updating a speed density map. It works the same way. It's definitely worth doing if you have the time. Operating in blended mode the ECM is always taking a look at both MAF and the VE for speed density, and it weights its decision to draw more heavily from one or the other based on certain operating conditions. A MAF sensor is very accurate at steady airflow, especially at higher engine speeds. The MAF is not great at sudden transients (gear changes, throttle blips, etc) and that's where the ECM will bias towards that VE table for a speed density operation.

I can appreciate that most tuners do not have the time to do a full VVE tune alongside the MAF - it's much easier and less time consuming to just cut out the 3D nature of dialing in a full VE table, and just do the 2D MAF curve. And typically, done well, a MAF-only tune is really pretty good on most combinations, to the point where most users wouldn't appreciate the difference. Some operators are very closely in-tune with there vehicle and could identify some of the advantages of a properly dialed in VE table - I think you're probably one of them.

Same idea goes for the virtual torque - the better the reference the TCM has on what's going on, the better it can make decisions about shift quality and schedule.

It's fun stuff to get into. I've had the current combination in my car for about two seasons, and just this week I was making a small tweak to a very minor detail in the SD map that gets my attention occasionally. I enjoy the refinement process. It's not something that anybody tuning for a living will every have time for, and so I can appreciate the need to balance the need to perfect a VE table against the need to work on other key areas of the calibration in the limited window of time they have.

[morepowerjoe]

Yeah that about sums it up. I know that dyno tuners don't have the time to dial all that in, that being said, that's where a good remote tuner comes in because they have the time to go through logs and logs and dial everything in. They only down side I would say is all the driving it takes to populate the data the remote tuner needs but well worth it in my opinion 😉.

[acutron42]

Well said MPJ, I love the remote tuning & doing the data logs as that is realistically my only option. It does not hurt to have a very smart man in my sig also.

[morepowerjoe]

Originally Posted by acutron42

Well said MPJ, I love the remote tuning & doing the data logs as that is realistically my only option. It does not hurt to have a very smart man in my sig also.

You really have a VVT cam in that 415?

[acammer]

Originally Posted by morepowerjoe

You really have a VVT cam in that 415?

He sure does. Car makes mid-upper 500s to the tires, has a torque curve like an electric motor, amd drives like an angel. Killer street car setup.

[morepowerjoe]

Originally Posted by acammer

He sure does. Car makes mid-upper 500s to the tires, has a torque curve like an electric motor, amd drives like an angel. Killer street car setup.

That's really cool!

[acutron42]

If I had to do it all over I would not change a thing. The drivability is amazing & actually gets better gas mileage than my 2022 Sierra.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by acutron42

If I had to do it all over I would not change a thing. The drivability is amazing & actually gets better gas mileage than my 2022 Sierra.

It's notable that these are numbers from our engine dyno during break in, with a carburetor, and with the cam in the fully retarded position (best top end power). Peak power with the FI manifold would be similar but down 10-15hp, but with the VVT operating (as it does in chassis) the curve is even stronger than the already really solid numbers here. It makes horsepower similar to my Max Package SBE motor, torque like a big block truck motor, and does it all while have really mild manners. It's a super cool build, I'm lucky acutron42 trusted me to come up with what I think is the exact combo he was looking for.

[acutron42]

Great point Andrew, I should have noted that. Some day we will get it on a chassis dyno just for fun but as we discussed, the logs look good enough for now & whp is not really a concern to me. I need to get it on the track when the 3.91's are in & go from there. And yes, you gave me everything I wanted & whole lot more! I can't stress enough here that no matter how good you are with a wrench, some things are better left to the experts that do this every day.

[morepowerjoe]

Thanks guys for sharing such an awesome build.