Electric Vehicles - Page 224 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Malbjey · 07-14-2025, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlee

558 miles. A new range king.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/202...tsiJGm9DZAOk1g

That's pretty damn impressive range, but the vehicle weighs over 9,000lbs!

I will still wait for batteries to get smaller for that type of range. But 558 miles is a lot of range even for an ICE vehicle.

*mlee* · 07-14-2025, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malbjey

That's pretty damn impressive range, but the vehicle weighs over 9,000lbs!

I will still wait for batteries to get smaller for that type of range. But 558 miles is a lot of range even for an ICE vehicle.

That is crazy heavy... 9,000+

snizzle · 07-15-2025, 07:03 AM

Not a surprise, all the GM BEVs are heavy, especially the trucks. Hummer/Silverado/etc are all 9k+. Batteries are heavy, especially ones this large, to achieve a certain range target.

Martinjlm · 07-15-2025, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malbjey

That's pretty damn impressive range, but the vehicle weighs over 9,000lbs!

I will still wait for batteries to get smaller for that type of range. But 558 miles is a lot of range even for an ICE vehicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlee

That is crazy heavy... 9,000+

Quote:

Originally Posted by snizzle

Not a surprise, all the GM BEVs are heavy, especially the trucks. Hummer/Silverado/etc are all 9k+. Batteries are heavy, especially ones this large, to achieve a certain range target.

Supposedly the largest battery pack for Hummer EV (247 kWh; 213 useable) weighs 2,923 lbs. A base Honda Civic weighs 2,877 curb mass.

Martinjlm · 07-15-2025, 07:44 AM

Touching on the mass thing again. Most EVs are heavy (batteries) but they don't have to be. We have a Tesla Model Y and an Equinox EV. Roughly the same size. The Equinox EV replaced a 2012 Cadillac SRX. Here's the Curb mass for each...

SRX: 4,277
Model Y: 4,363
Equinox EV: 4,950

The Model Y is only 86 pounds heavier than the SRX and it's more than 500 pounds lighter than the Equinox EV.

So even though the EVs have decent size batteries (81 kWh for the Model Y, 85 kWh for the Equinox EV), they DON'T have an engine, transmission, exhaust, prop shaft, or gas tank, so there is some offset. The other thing that Tesla does is when you look at the unibody, there is no floor. The battery box cover IS the floor. A number of EV manufacturers are starting to use this approach. Another thing Tesla does is they assemble their vehicles from gigacastings. Basically, using one huge super-sized casting for the rear 1/2 of the vehicle, replacing hundreds of parts and the weld material to put them together. Same for the front. The battery sits between them. Reduces mass and cost to build. Significantly increases repair cost in the event of a collision.

Toyota, famous for the efficiency of their manufacturing processes, is now also starting to develop their own gigacasting process.

The left side of the picture shows the parts and assemblies that Tesla used to use to make Model 3. The right side shows a Model Y with the floor eliminated and the smaller parts replaced by the two single gigacastings. Saves hundreds of pounds.

snizzle · 07-15-2025, 07:46 AM

Any significant difference in cost to insure the two (since you have both right now)?

FarmerFran · 07-15-2025, 09:20 AM

500+ miles is pretty darn good. My truck goes 654 on highway and about 580 mixed driving. But i can get that range in 5 minutes.

Gunkk · 07-15-2025, 11:37 AM

I imagine there's a significant weight penalty for "repairable ultium" vs. disposable foam-glue filled tesla packs. Lots of metal dividers and casings inside an ultium, and I would expect that it's probably a bit more tolerant of rock and debris hits as well.

FarmerFran · 07-15-2025, 03:04 PM

Whats with GM stopping EV production and building silverado and gmc at the plant

Martinjlm · 07-15-2025, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Whats with GM stopping EV production and building silverado and gmc at the plant

I will assume you are referring to the Orion Twp plant. There are a number of plants having changes in production plans. Most of it in response to the tariff situation. Orion was originally planned to build Silverado EV and Sierra EV. GM had even before the tariff issue started to back away from that plan. Silverado EV and Sierra EV are and will continue to be built at Hamtramck Factory Zero alongside Hummer EV and the Escalade iQ models. Orion will build the next gen Silverado and Sierra and will also take up some of (maybe all?) of the Escalade from Arlington.

Fairfax will take on Next Gen Bolt EV / EUV and also Blazer will move from Ramos Arizpe and some of the Equinox volume from the same plant.

Martinjlm · 07-15-2025, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snizzle

Any significant difference in cost to insure the two (since you have both right now)?

The Tesla costs about 30% more to insure than the Equinox EV. Not really sure why that is. Could be due to the reapirability (or lack thereof) of the gigacastings. I can't confirm or deny with the information I have available.

snizzle · 07-16-2025, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Fairfax will take on Next Gen Bolt EV / EUV and also Blazer will move from Ramos Arizpe and some of the Equinox volume from the same plant.

Is this a new next-gen ICE Blazer? Every year the current gen is rumored to be cut. It's a poor seller. Hard to believe they'd tool for the current.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The Tesla costs about 30% more to insure than the Equinox EV. Not really sure why that is. Could be due to the reapirability (or lack thereof) of the gigacastings. I can't confirm or deny with the information I have available.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I asked. Every accident has a greater chance of totaling the entire thing. Awesome for cost savings and manufacturing efficiency, bad for the customer (unless some of those savings are passed along).

Martinjlm · 07-16-2025, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snizzle

Is this a new next-gen ICE Blazer? Every year the current gen is rumored to be cut. It's a poor seller. Hard to believe they'd tool for the current.

In typical GM fashion, it’s complicated. It was announced earlier that 2025 would be the last MY for Blazer, XT5, and XT6. All off of the Chi platform. Then XT5 was extended to end of 2026. Then Blazer was announced as going to Fairfax as a next gen. Maybe there is renewed hope with the refresh. If the refresh is as solid as the Acadia refresh (also off of Chi) there may be something to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snizzle

That's exactly what I was thinking when I asked. Every accident has a greater chance of totaling the entire thing. Awesome for cost savings and manufacturing efficiency, bad for the customer (unless some of those savings are passed along).

In our case I would say that the savings were passed along. We bought the Model Y at a point in time where Tesla was pushing to keep Model Y as the best selling car in the world. They dropped prices in a number of countries, including US of course, to bump sales a bit. We got a great deal. About $5k less than they were selling for just a couple months earlier.

genxer · 07-16-2025, 09:39 AM

I just saw on Saturday one of the 100 people who bought a Lucid at hypermiling speed on a highway stretch of US22 in PA, where it's posted 55 opening up to 65, everyone going around.

EV drivers drive slow probably to avoid a recharge, or just aren't purchasing for performance whatsoever. Focusing on lowering EV mass is chasing a ghost. Deep cold, drag hurt range more.

Tesla has the disengaged-enthusiast EV driver paradox market totally covered, and is that ghost. Paying off for large castings may also be a reason they keep body styles around so long.

I don't think this Tesla is getting repaired: https://www.carscoops.com/2025/07/te...craziest-part/ "Tesla Pierced Front To Back And Somehow That’s Not Even The Craziest Part
A California driver miraculously walked away after a guardrail speared straight through his EV"

07-15-2025, 07:03 AM	#3125
snizzle Recalled user Drives: '12 Camaro SS, '18 Colorado Z71 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,520	Not a surprise, all the GM BEVs are heavy, especially the trucks. Hummer/Silverado/etc are all 9k+. Batteries are heavy, especially ones this large, to achieve a certain range target. __________________ 2012 2SS 45th AE LS3 M6 Borla ATAK Catback Kooks Stepped LT Headers CAI Intake Hexvents VMAX CNC Ported Throttle Body RX Catch Can Hurst Short Throw Shifter Pfadt ZL-Spec Stage 3 Suspension Forgestar F14 Tuned by Frost

07-15-2025, 07:44 AM	#3127
Martinjlm Retired from GM Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Detroit Posts: 5,883	Touching on the mass thing again. Most EVs are heavy (batteries) but they don't have to be. We have a Tesla Model Y and an Equinox EV. Roughly the same size. The Equinox EV replaced a 2012 Cadillac SRX. Here's the Curb mass for each... SRX: 4,277 Model Y: 4,363 Equinox EV: 4,950 The Model Y is only 86 pounds heavier than the SRX and it's more than 500 pounds lighter than the Equinox EV. So even though the EVs have decent size batteries (81 kWh for the Model Y, 85 kWh for the Equinox EV), they DON'T have an engine, transmission, exhaust, prop shaft, or gas tank, so there is some offset. The other thing that Tesla does is when you look at the unibody, there is no floor. The battery box cover IS the floor. A number of EV manufacturers are starting to use this approach. Another thing Tesla does is they assemble their vehicles from gigacastings. Basically, using one huge super-sized casting for the rear 1/2 of the vehicle, replacing hundreds of parts and the weld material to put them together. Same for the front. The battery sits between them. Reduces mass and cost to build. Significantly increases repair cost in the event of a collision. Toyota, famous for the efficiency of their manufacturing processes, is now also starting to develop their own gigacasting process. The left side of the picture shows the parts and assemblies that Tesla used to use to make Model 3. The right side shows a Model Y with the floor eliminated and the smaller parts replaced by the two single gigacastings. Saves hundreds of pounds. Attached Images __________________ 2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE A8 \| MRC \| NPP \| Nav \| HUD \| GM Performance CAI \| Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB \| Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers \| FlexFuel Tune \| Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam \| Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight \| Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties \| 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray \| Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays \| Novistretch bra and mirror covers \| Tow hitch for bicycle rack \|

07-15-2025, 07:46 AM	#3128
snizzle Recalled user Drives: '12 Camaro SS, '18 Colorado Z71 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,520	Any significant difference in cost to insure the two (since you have both right now)? __________________ 2012 2SS 45th AE LS3 M6 Borla ATAK Catback Kooks Stepped LT Headers CAI Intake Hexvents VMAX CNC Ported Throttle Body RX Catch Can Hurst Short Throw Shifter Pfadt ZL-Spec Stage 3 Suspension Forgestar F14 Tuned by Frost

07-15-2025, 09:20 AM	#3129
FarmerFran Drives: 2023 ZL1 Vert M6 "Sharky" Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Earth Posts: 4,506	500+ miles is pretty darn good. My truck goes 654 on highway and about 580 mixed driving. But i can get that range in 5 minutes. __________________ <Insert Cars You Own Here>

07-15-2025, 03:04 PM	#3131
FarmerFran Drives: 2023 ZL1 Vert M6 "Sharky" Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Earth Posts: 4,506	Whats with GM stopping EV production and building silverado and gmc at the plant __________________ <Insert Cars You Own Here>

07-15-2025, 11:37 AM	#3130
Gunkk Thank you Al Oppenheiser! Drives: Red Hot A10 ZL1 Convertible Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 5,140 View My Garage	I imagine there's a significant weight penalty for "repairable ultium" vs. disposable foam-glue filled tesla packs. Lots of metal dividers and casings inside an ultium, and I would expect that it's probably a bit more tolerant of rock and debris hits as well.

07-16-2025, 09:39 AM	#3136
genxer Drives: multiple cars Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 558	I just saw on Saturday one of the 100 people who bought a Lucid at hypermiling speed on a highway stretch of US22 in PA, where it's posted 55 opening up to 65, everyone going around. EV drivers drive slow probably to avoid a recharge, or just aren't purchasing for performance whatsoever. Focusing on lowering EV mass is chasing a ghost. Deep cold, drag hurt range more. Tesla has the disengaged-enthusiast EV driver paradox market totally covered, and is that ghost. Paying off for large castings may also be a reason they keep body styles around so long. I don't think this Tesla is getting repaired: https://www.carscoops.com/2025/07/te...craziest-part/ "Tesla Pierced Front To Back And Somehow That’s Not Even The Craziest Part A California driver miraculously walked away after a guardrail speared straight through his EV"