Service Power Steering light came on. I have a few questions.

[econ]

Originally Posted by 1JEWLDSSRS

Also you might want to fix what you say caused it..

It's not that simple. If that's all there was to it, I would have done just that and I would have never started this thread.

So, to get into the long story...

I decided that since I really like the feel of slow ratio manual steering and I happen to hate electric power steering, it would be a good idea to replace my electric rack with a manual rack from Flaming River. They offer such a rack for our cars. So I order one and I order the intermediate shaft to complete installation.

I get the old rack out and the new rack in. Then I align it.

I'm all exited to take it on its maiden voyage and to my surprise, it won't start and lots of warning lights are on. What went wrong? Come to find out the electric steering has a control module and a torque sensor that are integral to the rack and the module is part of the CAN bus.

The engine cannot run without this module in place. The torque sensor must be plugged into the module to keep certain codes from being set as well.

So what now? I removed the old rack in pieces to make it easier to remove it. I can't simply put it back on. I destroyed parts of it during removal. So I want to make this work with the manual rack.

So I got an incomplete rack from a local wrecking yard and salvaged the module and torque sensor. I unhooked the battery, made a bracket for the module and a housing for the sensor. I mounted them into position and plugged them in. I hooked the battery up and attempted to start the engine. It fired up right away. Everything seems fine. But there is that code and the tire pressure sensors are not working. Other than that, I notice nothing out of the ordinary.

I am aware that the new to me module needs to be programmed and perhaps that will cure everything. But then, I have a module, and torque sensor and a manual rack for a steering system. Will the modules "know" this and give me problems of some sort? That I would love to know.

[bsn]

I don't think anyone will be able to give you an informed answer. The manual conversions are meant for race cars which won't use a factory ECM. It would be best to call Flaming River and see if they have run into this before. My guess is your going to get stabilitrack errors and the car will keep going into limp mode.

It is an easy fix though.....reinstall the correct rack.

[acutron42]

Econ, when you get into projects like this, it would be be helpful to post this info in the beginning. You will get much more help that way. I can't answer your question, but here is a diagram that might help others shed some light on this.

[Joe.G]

Is this code and module able to be programmed out? I am assuming just plugin them isn't going to work as they will be looking for inputs that it's not going to receive.

[gtstorey]

There is a chance that the data wires can be reconnected to omit the steering rack, but the light will on since it will be missing the module. I don't know about the reduced power from missing the rack. I would be surprised if it does, but it will need the data wires reconnected to allow data to flow between remaining modules. And depending on where some of the resistors are in the system, they may have to be added.

I think accutron42's diagram is from alldata. The oem diagrams might be more clears since they should have diagrams for the data network separately.

[Mouse330]

Your ****ing with the CAN network

[acutron42]

That is correct GT, The the interactive color is written (non oe) & then there is electrical (oe) in black & white. I have never looked into why that is.

[econ]

Originally Posted by bsn

I don't think anyone will be able to give you an informed answer. The manual conversions are meant for race cars which won't use a factory ECM. It would be best to call Flaming River and see if they have run into this before. My guess is your going to get stabilitrack errors and the car will keep going into limp mode.

It is an easy fix though.....reinstall the correct rack.

Of course I have asked Flaming River about this.

A few different people. Nobody that I talked to knows ANYTHING about this and they claim to have sold thousands of these and nobody has ever brought this to their attention.

So far, no stabilitrak error and no limp mode.

If it comes to that, I would likely look into a standalone ECM. Not only because of this, by the way.

[econ]

Originally Posted by acutron42

Econ, when you get into projects like this, it would be be helpful to post this info in the beginning. You will get much more help that way. I can't answer your question, but here is a diagram that might help others shed some light on this.

If I knew what does and does not bring on limp mode, thats all I would really need to know.

I can live with a service power steering message. If it never turns to limp mode then I'll live with the message.

[econ]

Originally Posted by Joe.G

Is this code and module able to be programmed out? I am assuming just plugin them isn't going to work as they will be looking for inputs that it's not going to receive.

I'm hoping so and I did find a mobile module reprograming service.

The steering torque sensor will be sitting there hooked up and inputting zero torque to the power steering module. The module sitting there connected to the can bus but not connected to the motor that it outputs to.

So the inputs are there.

It is the power steering electric motor that is not there. I don't think the module monitors the output of the motor. Maybe it does, but I don't see any sensor that actually monitor the output/performance of the motor. Still figuring this part out.

I do have a service power steering warning light on, but I think that is because the module I am using is from another car and needs to be programmed to my car.

[ariZona28]

Like it or not race fans this might be the challenge we face in the not to distant future as we try to keep and maintain our beloved 5TH GENS for not just years but DECADES. While the OP is attempting this for preference and mechanical experimentation we might all be up against this hurdle as parts break down and replacements are either overly expensive and technical or unobtainable all together.

[econ]

Originally Posted by gtstorey

There is a chance that the data wires can be reconnected to omit the steering rack, but the light will on since it will be missing the module. I don't know about the reduced power from missing the rack. I would be surprised if it does, but it will need the data wires reconnected to allow data to flow between remaining modules. And depending on where some of the resistors are in the system, they may have to be added.

I think accutron42's diagram is from alldata. The oem diagrams might be more clears since they should have diagrams for the data network separately.

It looks like you missed the part about me removing the module from a rack and plugging it in to the harness. There is no missing module.

I literally bought a rack, removed the module and removed the torque sensor. I then plugged the torque sensor into the module then plugged the module into the harness.

I would love to be able to eliminate the module, but that's over my head unless I can find a resource providing detailed instructions. I have not been able to find such a resource.

[econ]

Originally Posted by Mouse330

Your ****ing with the CAN network

Yes, but putting the module in place with the torque sensor, even without the electric motor, will *hopefully* keep the CAN bus system functioning as designed.

[econ]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Like it or not race fans this might be the challenge we face in the not to distant future as we try to keep and maintain our beloved 5TH GENS for not just years but DECADES. While the OP is attempting this for preference and mechanical experimentation we might all be up against this hurdle as parts break down and replacements are either overly expensive and technical or unobtainable all together.
://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/general-discussion-33/car-could-not-fixed-185617/

This electric rack is pretty lame in design and replacements (new) are about $2500. Junk yard pulls are about $250. Mostly from totaled cars. Not wise to use a steering component from a totaled, wrecked car. Rebuilders, as far as I have found, don't work on them.

Finding a good way around the necessity of having this electric rack and it's module in place would be VERY NICE.