Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Do you think the I6 will be accepted as a replacement for a V8? I believe you have one in your truck and am interested how it would do in the Charger.

With the way Dodge has reversed course I wouldn't be surprised to see a V8 offered in the Charger, probably at a premium. However they do hope to sell some EVs just might not be in the Charger. Seemed like an odd choice to launch their (I believe) first EV. They have a partnership with NextStar which just built a huge battery plant close to Windsor assembly where the Charger is built. Maybe they can build batteries and engine blocks.

This is gonna get real interesting real fast. The Hurricane is by all indications a much better engine than the Hemi in every respect. Power, torque, efficiency, fuel economy, emissions. Consider the magnitude of difference between the 2015 LS1 and the 2016 LT1 and maybe double that.

Now, add the fact that the basic STLA architecture was designed to support the EV applications and the STLA Large version of the platform was designed around EV applications but also to support engine applications. But the engine compartment was practically shrinkwrapped around the Hurricane inline configuration, not the V configuration of the Hemi. But the head of Dodge brand has hinted that they are looking at ways to package Hemi. It's very unusual to tear up a complete platform to fit an engine that very much doesn't fit.

In my experience I've seen one example of just putting it in anyway, even if it doesn't really fit. The earliest implementations of V6 Turbo in G-Body Buick Regals. There is a particular spark plug (I can't remember which) that cannot be accessed without jacking up the engine. I don't recall if/how that was resolved for later years. Probably handled in the upgrade for G-Body in 1981 or 82.

I've also seen an example of when the architecture was modified to fit the engine. Putting the 5.3L V8 in the W-car (Monte Carlo SS). Didn't have the serviceability issues the V6 Turbo had in the A-Body. I do recall a lot of complaints about torque steer, but that's gonna happen with a torque happy V8 in a FWD car.

It'll be interesting to see how much of a tear-up Stellantis is willing to stomach to fit a Hemi where the technically superior Hurricane is already packaged. Took the picture below to show the frunk size. I've marked it up to show where the shock towers are. That would have to change to have any hope of fitting a V engine. Repositioning shock towers is not trivial.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Interesting article in The Wall Street Journal a few days ago. I'll link it, but its behind a paywall so know that.

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/g...s&pos=1&page=1

It's also long so I'm not going to cut and paste, but the title Why General Motors Boss Mary Barra Is Slamming the Brakes on Lofty EV Ambitions pretty much sums up the content and the Cliff Notes version is what we all already know - not enough people are buying them.

It's also interesting that GM decided to lobby hard for loosening government emission rules and fuel economy standards. So essentially GM has done a complete 180. On the one hand you have to give her credit for accepting reality, but on the other you have to wonder if her corporate vision is whatever is the popular political position at the time.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

This is gonna get real interesting real fast. The Hurricane is by all indications a much better engine than the Hemi in every respect. Power, torque, efficiency, fuel economy, emissions. Consider the magnitude of difference between the 2015 LS1 and the 2016 LT1 and maybe double that.

Now, add the fact that the basic STLA architecture was designed to support the EV applications and the STLA Large version of the platform was designed around EV applications but also to support engine applications. But the engine compartment was practically shrinkwrapped around the Hurricane inline configuration, not the V configuration of the Hemi. But the head of Dodge brand has hinted that they are looking at ways to package Hemi. It's very unusual to tear up a complete platform to fit an engine that very much doesn't fit.

In my experience I've seen one example of just putting it in anyway, even if it doesn't really fit. The earliest implementations of V6 Turbo in G-Body Buick Regals. There is a particular spark plug (I can't remember which) that cannot be accessed without jacking up the engine. I don't recall if/how that was resolved for later years. Probably handled in the upgrade for G-Body in 1981 or 82.

I've also seen an example of when the architecture was modified to fit the engine. Putting the 5.3L V8 in the W-car (Monte Carlo SS). Didn't have the serviceability issues the V6 Turbo had in the A-Body. I do recall a lot of complaints about torque steer, but that's gonna happen with a torque happy V8 in a FWD car.

It'll be interesting to see how much of a tear-up Stellantis is willing to stomach to fit a Hemi where the technically superior Hurricane is already packaged. Took the picture below to show the frunk size. I've marked it up to show where the shock towers are. That would have to change to have any hope of fitting a V engine. Repositioning shock towers is not trivial.

The trucks have 540hp 521tq. With a plugin add-on tuner box and intake they are over 700/700. This motor is no joke

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Got to crawl around, but not drive , a Ford Lightning the other day. Honestly, it's an impressive truck! I was surprised by how much I liked it... which was a lot.

Would i buy one? No. But for the guy who owned it with a 60 mile round trip daily commute it is perfect. He also doesn't much care about long trip inconvenience and is kind of a techie so he's very happy with it.

Bottom line - an excellent product with a limited market.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The trucks have 540hp 521tq. With a plugin add-on tuner box and intake they are over 700/700. This motor is no joke

Turbo Buicks from back-in-the-day proved that you don't need a V8 to get massive street cred. I had one; it garnered serious respect.

Once people start getting their asses handed to them by Hurricane powered cars they going to start caring less and less how their V8 sounds

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Turbo Buicks from back-in-the-day proved that you don't need a V8 to get massive street cred. I had one; it garnered serious respect.

Once people start getting their asses handed to them by Hurricane powered cars they going to start caring less and less how their V8 sounds

This is why I ask how motivated Stellantis will be to tear up a brand new architecture to accommodate a V8 that is clearly inferior to their new inline 6.

[ariZona28]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Turbo Buicks from back-in-the-day proved that you don't need a V8 to get massive street cred. I had one; it garnered serious respect.

Once people start getting their asses handed to them by Hurricane powered cars they going to start caring less and less how their V8 sounds

Unless your neighborhood is something out of "Fast and Furious" I doubt an excessive amount of ass-handing will be accomplished or even attempted. Gotta hand it it Mopar, nice engine but it is MAXXED OUT. 26 psi on a dinky 3.0 L engine. Interesting to see what performance mods you could do, not that you'd need to. Let's see how long these engines stay together if you're enjoying them to full potential on a regular basis. We're taking Stellantis quality and engineering after all.

Side note on the Turbo Buicks of yesteryear: Great performance but sounded "odd" under full power and my lightly modded 455 Olds ran away from them at a fraction of the price and actually SOUNDED like a muscle car should.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Unless your neighborhood is something out of "Fast and Furious" I doubt an excessive amount of ass-handing will be accomplished or even attempted. Gotta hand it it Mopar, nice engine but it is MAXXED OUT. 26 psi on a dinky 3.0 L engine. Interesting to see what performance mods you could do, not that you'd need to. Let's see how long these engines stay together if you're enjoying them to full potential on a regular basis. We're taking Stellantis quality and engineering after all.

Side note on the Turbo Buicks of yesteryear: Great performance but sounded "odd" under full power and my lightly modded 455 Olds ran away from them at a fraction of the price and actually SOUNDED like a muscle car should.

See post 3265, it is not maxed out. Not by a long shot - good for mid-3s to 60 and high 11s

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Unless your neighborhood is something out of "Fast and Furious" I doubt an excessive amount of ass-handing will be accomplished or even attempted. Gotta hand it it Mopar, nice engine but it is MAXXED OUT. 26 psi on a dinky 3.0 L engine. Interesting to see what performance mods you could do, not that you'd need to. Let's see how long these engines stay together if you're enjoying them to full potential on a regular basis. We're taking Stellantis quality and engineering after all.

Side note on the Turbo Buicks of yesteryear: Great performance but sounded "odd" under full power and my lightly modded 455 Olds ran away from them at a fraction of the price and actually SOUNDED like a muscle car should.

With everybody and their dog doing YouTube videos there would soon be a ton of Hurricane vs Whatever videos and the word would be out. Nobody would have to actually race if they didn't want to so your point is well taken.

Stock for stock - Turbo Buick vs Olds W-30 is a drivers race. Start adding mods and the Olds gets destroyed. $1,000 got the little V6 in the 11's (which used to be really fast )

Having said that the W-30 442 is one of my all time favorite cars... but now we are straying way off topic

[lowke]

I like the stellantis 3.0 so far. Good efficiency and power. It needs a good rwd platform and a manual transmission like the Camaro.

[Devstrike]

My only problem with the new Hurricane Charger is that its too damn heavy at 5k pounds. One thing I like about my Camaro coming in (according to cat scale) 3580 pounds is that its the lightest car with a V8 (that I know of) and I am greatly fond of its capabilities handling the curves and twisty roads. With all that weight and the fact that looks like it will have boat like characteristics of the Challenger before it, the car will be a turn off to me. I want more than just straight line fun.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

My only problem with the new Hurricane Charger is that its too damn heavy at 5k pounds. One thing I like about my Camaro coming in (according to cat scale) 3580 pounds is that its the lightest car with a V8 (that I know of) and I am greatly fond of its capabilities handling the curves and twisty roads. With all that weight and the fact that looks like it will have boat like characteristics of the Challenger before it, the car will be a turn off to me. I want more than just straight line fun.

Agreed but "everyone" wants an AWD, V8, Super light, vehicle. 5K is what it costs.

And I am telling you straight faced, my Challenger Scat Wide could hang with a lot of "light weights" in the normal road twisties. I know, I have done it.

People need to stop looking at the raw numbers and look at the raw capability of modern cars.

Could my ZL1 out run the Scat to the top of Little Switzerland? ABSOLUTELY, - I did it, but in normal everyday life and not cutting to the edge? No. And it is the same reason the Mustang out sells the Camaro year after year.

EDIT: so the stop light wins will go to the Charger, and that is all you will hear about

off soap box

[detamble13]

Model 3 and Y have just introduced a "Standard" trim level which reduces content and price. Not sure if this moves the needle but the Model Y sells pretty well so offering a base model should only help.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Model 3 and Y have just introduced a "Standard" trim level which reduces content and price. Not sure if this moves the needle but the Model Y sells pretty well so offering a base model should only help.

Looks like it is 40K, not bad