Jay leno hints to the z28 in video!!!

[Epitaph]

Originally Posted by gunslinger

Many people have posted about the V6TT being "lighter" than a V8, which is far from the truth. The LSx series of motors have weighed all roughly the same from the LS1- LS7 (minus the S/C versions) at about 450 lbs dry weight. HP ranged from 350-505.

You're right, I was wrong (about the weight). But the V6 TT would (likely) get better gas mileage, seeing as it's DI.

If GM puts a DI V8, I'd be all for it. Better gas mileage & weight is about the same. I don't see GM going Turbo at all though. I think (that other people would think) that Turbo's don't belong in Muscle cars. I'm biased to Turbo's just because of the possibility of better gas mileage, or not getting a lot worse gas mileage at all. I've never heard of someone getting better gas mileage with a S/c. I'm sure there might be that one random case where someone says that they did get better mpg...

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I disagree, because the SS would get similar engines either at the same time or shortly there after. Making Gen V power plants the defining feature wouldn't be enough unless there is a large tuning and displacement difference between the two, which could just as easily happen with Gen IV engines anyway.

Isn't the Grand Sport Vette the same engine as the Vette, but with a few tweeks?

We should pay attention to what they are doing to and with the Vette to better guess what may happen to the Camaro, which targets a much larger and broader audience.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Epitaph

You're right, I was wrong (about the weight). But the V6 TT would (likely) get better gas mileage, seeing as it's DI.

If GM puts a DI V8, I'd be all for it. Better gas mileage & weight is about the same. I don't see GM going Turbo at all though. I think (that other people would think) that Turbo's don't belong in Muscle cars. I'm biased to Turbo's just because of the possibility of better gas mileage, or not getting a lot worse gas mileage at all. I've never heard of someone getting better gas mileage with a S/c. I'm sure there might be that one random case where someone says that they did get better mpg...

The TVS superchargers from EATON increase engine efficiency at cruising speeds...with DI, I'm sure they could be utilized to improve fuel economy -- but not near the level that Turbos can.

GM considers the car a sports car, and as such -- I wouldn't rule turbos out so easily. Mustang is supposedly getting a version of the over-hyped 'ecoboost' engine lineup...Camaro will no doubt answer.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Camaro will no doubt answer.

Just hopefully not with the Z/28........

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Just hopefully not with the Z/28........

Personally? I doubt it....big time.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Epitaph

You're right, I was wrong (about the weight). But the V6 TT would (likely) get better gas mileage, seeing as it's DI.

If GM puts a DI V8, I'd be all for it. Better gas mileage & weight is about the same. I don't see GM going Turbo at all though. I think (that other people would think) that Turbo's don't belong in Muscle cars. I'm biased to Turbo's just because of the possibility of better gas mileage, or not getting a lot worse gas mileage at all. I've never heard of someone getting better gas mileage with a S/c. I'm sure there might be that one random case where someone says that they did get better mpg...

don't forget emissions.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Ronin_2SS

you do realize that the Z28 line has always had the "lesser" hp than the SS models. They were always lighter and nimble with the smaller engine. Although if GM does go with a TT v6 this will be the 1st z28 not paking a v8. Traditionaly a factory 500hp Z28 doesnt make sense, call it the ZL1 and it would.

Lesser by you mean very under-rated? The 1967 Z/28 was under-rated to keep the horsepower at less than 1HP per cubic inch (for reasons such as insurance and racing classes). Basically, they under-rated these figures in order to keep them competing in the Trans-Am (believe it was that event, correct me if I'm wrong on the specific name lol) racing classes. Who's to not say without a strict set of rules to go by, they would rate it at it's actual HP and make it at a larger size? There is no reason for them to under-rate their HP statistics or lower their cubic inches, so technically the Z/28 should have more horsepower and the same/bigger motor this time around.

[Ronin_2SS]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Lesser by you mean very under-rated? The 1967 Z/28 was under-rated to keep the horsepower at less than 1HP per cubic inch (for reasons such as insurance and racing classes). Basically, they under-rated these figures in order to keep them competing in the Trans-Am (believe it was that event, correct me if I'm wrong on the specific name lol) racing classes. Who's to not say without a strict set of rules to go by, they would rate it at it's actual HP and make it at a larger size? There is no reason for them to under-rate their HP statistics or lower their cubic inches, so technically the Z/28 should have more horsepower and the same/bigger motor this time around.

It seems to me the general concensus is that the Z28 has always been the heavy hitter. I think its collectable nature has reinforced that idea.
The 67-69 Z/28 came with 305's rated for competition in the trans am series. The SS models of the same year came with 350's or 396's. I think that is where people get confused. so even if they underated them they still carried the smaller engine. The Z/28 purpose was a road racer first and a street car second. however the ZL1's were "underated" for insurance and distribution. the rare car recieved a 427 all aluminium block that was rated at 430bhp but it was estimated they were pushing well over 500bhp. The Z28 has always been the track car, not the fastest but the all round favorite. The SS always carried the big motor and the hp. It was the street machine and weekend drag racer. That pattern has followed throughout the camaro line up since its birth. IMO the problem with this whole z28 thing is the "label". If they are going to make a Super camaro there are many labels to give it that make sense in its history. ie..yenko, copo, ZL1. but to make a z28 have more hp than a ss is not traditional. Thats like taking the shelby gt500 and then ford deciding to make a Bullit with a bigger badder engine. I may be a purist but the camaro and all pony cars alike live on their history. dont change it. So I say a TT v6 z28 is a good alternative. It wont have the big guns like the SS but it would be one hell of a track car thats lighter and more nimble. Which is what the Z28 is supposed to be. As far as a Super camaro to compete with the Gt500? IMO GM doesnt need it. from the looks of it the camaro will still outsell the stangs, even with their shelby's.

[a_Username]

But you are wrong on the SS carrying the bigger dose of horsepower, in reality it did not. The Z/28 carried more, it was just under-rated due to insurance and racing restrictions. However, there is no need for these guidelines to make a Z/28 now. GM can be truthful with it's HP rating this time around lol. Thus giving them the chance to make the Z/28 an all around power house.

If they make a strictly road-track performance vehicle this time around (Traditionally; smaller motor/less HP), it would be kind of stupid from a business standpoint in my opinion. What would the car compete with? A track-pack equipped GT? If they did make it like you've explained, this car would compete with the SS in the public eye, if they had similar performance and were similar priced. Most people who are for the track-only oriented Z/28 seem to forget that it would be cheaper (which is very important, especially in today's economy) to make the Z/28 with elements of both the original Z/28 and ZL1.

[losjohnny]

I think the Z28 is perfect as a smaller but more nimble machine.

[Ronin_2SS]

Originally Posted by a_Username

But you are wrong on the SS carrying the bigger dose of horsepower, in reality it did not. The Z/28 carried more, it was just under-rated due to insurance and racing restrictions. However, there is no need for these guidelines to make a Z/28 now. GM can be truthful with it's HP rating this time around lol. Thus giving them the chance to make the Z/28 an all around power house.

If they make a strictly road-track performance vehicle this time around (Traditionally; smaller motor/less HP), it would be kind of stupid from a business standpoint in my opinion. What would the car compete with? A track-pack equipped GT? If they did make it like you've explained, this car would compete with the SS in the public eye, if they had similar performance and were similar priced. Most people who are for the track-only oriented Z/28 seem to forget that it would be cheaper (which is very important, especially in today's economy) to make the Z/28 with elements of both the original Z/28 and ZL1.

I may be wrong about the actual HP that the 302 cid motor produced. To my understanding In general they made 290bhp with Z28 exlclusive options such as twin 600 cfm holley's on a cross ram manifold, true dual chambered exhaust, cowl induction hood, 4 disc brakes, hurts close ratio 4 spd with standard 3.73:1 gears or up to 4.10:1 gearing. At the same time the SS had the option to have the 396 cid motor that produced 375bhp. So it would have to be underated by at least 85hp. (which I doubt) So to my best knowledge the Z28 had the better option for the race tuner. But just by the cid's offered for either car the 396 was never offered as an option for the z28 to my knowledge. Even Yenko's or ZL1's started out as SS's before getting the 427 cid's. No relplacment for displacement (at least back then). Anyhow since this has strayed from the subject of the OP one thing I do know is that historicly Z28's have out sold SS models in all years. Why? because they are practical racers. Great on the track, decent on the power with plenty of room for improvement. And your right if GM intends to make a track z28 today it would be pointless. The SS is more than able to do that. So if you want a Beast of a Camaro. Call it the ZL1. Like i said i dont have a problem with the Z28. Its the label they intenend to give this super camaro, thats the only issue I have. I ve only tried to present to the best of my knowledge the history of the Z28 and its role next to the SS. I dont understand why GM would break from that history the Z28 has let alone the SS......but then again when they first thought of the ZR1 many thought it was going to be called the Corvette SS first, no one ever thought of them bringing back the ZR1 back due to its small production history. Gm is weird at times. All in all Ill believe it when i see it.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Isn't the Grand Sport Vette the same engine as the Vette, but with a few tweeks?

We should pay attention to what they are doing to and with the Vette to better guess what may happen to the Camaro, which targets a much larger and broader audience.

The Grand Sport uses a hand built LS3, with dry sump oiling (for manual cars). It has the same ratings as the regular Corvette LS3's. What makes the Grand Sport special is that it uses as many other performance parts from the track ready Z06 as possible, with the steel frame and 6.2L engine from the base Corvettes. This is a great idea for affordable performance, but the equivalent in the Camaro (for now anyway) would be a V6 car, with SS facia, FE3 suspension, and Brembo brakes. Not that bad of a package, might even be a reasonable market for it, but not quite a car worthy of the Z28 moniker either.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The Grand Sport uses a hand built LS3, with dry sump oiling (for manual cars). It has the same ratings as the regular Corvette LS3's. What makes the Grand Sport special is that it uses as many other performance parts from the track ready Z06 as possible, with the steel frame and 6.2L engine from the base Corvettes. This is a great idea for affordable performance, but the equivalent in the Camaro (for now anyway) would be a V6 car, with SS facia, FE3 suspension, and Brembo brakes. Not that bad of a package, might even be a reasonable market for it, but not quite a car worthy of the Z28 moniker either.

[96CAMaro]

V6 twin turbo would be great for a Buick Grand National, but not a Z28 IMHO.