L99 AFM -- It's REALLY a tough choice, for some. Step Inside.

[DntWrryBeHappy21]

okay I read every post here and Ive been thinking about this question alot. When I finally have the money to buy this car I plan on waiting until I am financially able to own a 4cylinder beater to drive during the winter and a V8 (or v6) for fun...so I'd go with the 6speed ls3 and have fun with it on weekends or during the summer (spring and fall too i suppose). This may take a few years to become financially stable as I'm still young but its a dream i plan on fullfilling no matter how long it takes.

I'd say what many have already said without getting technical, Do whats convenient for you and leave it at that.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

The LS motors are brilliant in my opinion. You can get monster hp and because it all comes in at relatively low revs it can still get good fuel economy. People who bash GM for using large displacement pushrod v8s just don't know what they're talking about.

All hail the Chevy Small Block

Originally Posted by 3whiterag

Let me see, an LS3 a gas guzzler? I talked to a gentleman two weeks ago who called me to register for our show. He has a brand new Corvette and he just had to tell me that he drove from Toronto to Ottawa and got almost 35 MPG on the highway. Now, the rest of the story goes like this. He bought a brand new Neon, as a winter beater, which doesn't get that kind of mileage. Go Figure! The LS3 is very kind to you as long as you don't tramp on it. Just like any other car but better!!

Is that in our gallons or theirs?

[16yearoldcamarodriver]

I grew up driving auto but I already just know how to drive manual. Yeah, it will take a couple hours to get used to it, but once I get the car, all I am going to do is drive that puppy.

[bballr4567]

I currently own a 00 Formula that I bought while I was deployed. It is a manual and it was the only way I was going to buy a sports car. I have never driven a Fbody manual prior to that but I had drove an auto previously about 2-3 times and that made my choice right then. I hadnt drove a manual in over 4 years by the time my midtour leave came around yet I could NOT wait to get in that car and have fun. Did I have to reteach myself how to drive a stick? Yes. Was it fun? HELL YES.

To me an auto robs you of most of the fun. Its just that connected feeling that you get when you know that you control the car and what its doing. The feeling of downshifting from say 5th to 3rd at 45ish and then letting all hell loose is one of a kind. With an auto you just mash the gas and go. Manual is totally different. Youve got to push in the clutch, move the shifter to the precise place for the right gear, start to rev match the engine to where YOU think the RPMs will be, then you disengage the clutch and just let all those damn horses loose.


People used to get the manual for MPG purposes but now that the auto is on the block with the same MPG, if not better, then I see more people getting the auto for the ease of driving.

[Mr. Wyndham]

I think when talking about the Auto v. manual, we need to keep in mind this is not your average pedal-only automatic anymore.

Suddenly, I think the fun-factor becomes subjective - because automatic drivers now have control over their shifting as well. Not in the exact same way...but control nontheless.

[bballr4567]

Ehhhh Ive never drove a padel shifted car but I just dont think it could possibly be the same as driving a manual. The car wont let you downshift past a certain perimeter and so on. Just not what *I* want in a high HP car.

Id see that there is NO WAY the car will let you shift to say 3rd at 4500 RPMs and leave it there and then romp on it. Id have to drive the car to expierence it first.

PLUS, the wife cant drive a stick. She can move the car if she has to but cant get it going down the road.

[Mr. Wyndham]

My point is that the paddle-shifters changes the discussion a little bit.
There's no longer a "superior" transmission in terms of performance, mpg, or ability to shift. Now it's totally based on what interface a person likes better. Clutch and shifter? Or paddles?

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Ehhhh Ive never drove a padel shifted car but I just dont think it could possibly be the same as driving a manual.

Oh, I'd never say it is (not even DCTs can feel like a manual...) -- but that's what I meant (and said above): it's totally subjective. Some may like it better than shifting w/ a clutch in a manual car. And it would be advantageous to be able to just shift into drive in poor traffic.

Originally Posted by bballr4567

The car wont let you downshift past a certain perimeter and so on. Just not what *I* want in a high HP car.

Id see that there is NO WAY the car will let you shift to say 3rd at 4500 RPMs and leave it there and then romp on it. Id have to drive the car to expierence it first.

What do you mean? As long as you aren't shifting into an rpm above redline (ie potentially damaging the powertrain), the paddle-shift action will let you shift however you want.

[bballr4567]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

My point is that the paddle-shifters changes the discussion a little bit.
There's no longer a "superior" transmission in terms of performance, mpg, or ability to shift. Now it's totally based on what interface a person likes better. Clutch and shifter? Or paddles?

See that is a great question. I havent driven a paddle shifted car. Id love to see what its like.

Oh, I'd never say it is (not even DCTs can feel like a manual...) -- but that's what I meant (and said above): it's totally subjective. Some may like it better than shifting w/ a clutch in a manual car. And it would be advantageous to be able to just shift into drive in poor traffic.

I agree its subjective. To me the OPs point was that he has NEVER driven a stick car and that he is wondering if the 22 extra HP is worth it. To me its not about the extra 22 HP but rather the "extra" connection that I feel towards the car. Just controlling it and the powerband is for me.

I do agree that if I was to live in an area where heavy traffic was an everyday concern I would think twice about the manual. Its not fun to be stuck in traffic like that regardless of the transmission.

What do you mean? As long as you aren't shifting into an rpm above redline (ie potentially damaging the powertrain), the paddle-shift action will let you shift however you want.

Its my understand that most paddle shift cars have certain perimeters that will only allow you to shift into certain gears in certain circumstances. Im not sure if or how the Camaro will implement this system. :???:

Personally if you have never driven a manual and are wondering what its all about you NEED to drive it before making up your mind. Itll kill you on the inside for years to come thinking about well what if I had got the manual and so on.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

...

Its my understand that most paddle shift cars have certain perimeters that will only allow you to shift into certain gears in certain circumstances. Im not sure if or how the Camaro will implement this system. :???:

...

bballr4567 - "Id see that there is NO WAY the car will let you shift to say 3rd at 4500 RPMs and leave it there and then romp on it. Id have to drive the car to expierence it first."

I apologize, but I don't understand what you guys mean My '02 will let me shift into any gear, as long as the RPMs I shift into aren't past the rev' limiter. There shouldn't really be any difference than the manual - I mean; you aren't going to shift your manual down a gear past redline, right? Do you mean that you don't think the tranny will allow you to hold that gear until redline, or the shift point is reached? I thought I read somewhere the programming of the transmission will allow the driver to hold that gear until the rev' limiter kicks in.

I'm sorry for not understanding

[GTAHVIT]

I have no idea how this works on the Camaro/GM cars

But on the mazda3 I test drove with the autostick, (maybe not the same as paddles) it would shift into the next gear if you redlined for more than a second or two. Same thing with the down shift . If the engine started to bog, it would automatically down shift

[bballr4567]

Like I said, Im not sure how it will work either. Its my understanding that OTHER cars with paddle shifts still control what perimeters will let you shift and so on. It could be totally different with the new car. I have no idea. Im trying to search the issue right now.

Im not sure on your A4 but in my old car (01 Grand Am) I couldnt shift into 1st or 2nd if I was going faster then 5MPH. Car just wouldnt let me. Im sure that your transmission is the same.

Regardless, Id like to hear exactly how the paddle shifter will work and what the guidelines are (or if there are even guidelines) and so on.

[Angrybird 12]

Like others have said, you have SOME control over the shifting, but not so much as to damage the engine or drivetrain... I am sure the Computer will prevent anything like that...
but with a true manual you are free to downshift from any gear at any rpm... just be prepared to pick up the pieces if you screw up and downshift the 6 speed and miss 2 gears.... It can and does happen!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

...

Im not sure on your A4 but in my old car (01 Grand Am) I couldnt shift into 1st or 2nd if I was going faster then 5MPH. Car just wouldnt let me. Im sure that your transmission is the same.

Regardless, Id like to hear exactly how the paddle shifter will work and what the guidelines are (or if there are even guidelines) and so on.

Hmm... Well, in my car, I can shift into whatever gear I want, whenever I want. If I let the PCM control things, it won't downshift into first if I'm going more than 31 and into second if I'm going faster than 71. My '02 is just a 4L60E with a big stall though, so we're talking about two different styles of trannys. My wifey's Jetta is very restrictive on shifting though. I don't even think I can remember it allowing me go to redline for that matter, and is pretty stingy when it comes to downshifting.

I, like yourself, am very interested in seeing how this baby works.

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

Like others have said, you have SOME control over the shifting, but not so much as to damage the engine or drivetrain... I am sure the Computer will prevent anything like that...
but with a true manual you are free to downshift from any gear at any rpm... just be prepared to pick up the pieces if you screw up and downshift the 6 speed and miss 2 gears.... It can and does happen!

Umm... yeah... Once I was on the narrow pedal, powershifted into second, and tried third, missed, and went back into first. LOL, when I let the clutch out, the rearend chattered because the tires weren't going 60 MPH like the car was. I was fortunate that I didn't end up blowing up the rear end that time; I think my girdle is what save it really. But it's times like that where having the PCM control the tranny is a good idea.

[bballr4567]

Who knows?!?!?

All I know is that choosing between a manual and an automatic JUST might get harder for me once I drive them. The T6060 is supposedly one of the BEST transmissions to be offered in a car (same goes for the 4L80E, I think that is the auto right???) and if it can handle the Z06 itll be up to duty in the Camaro.