Mustangs................

[fdjizm]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

The performance pack for the V6 gives it GT parts, while the Track pack for the GT gives it GT500 parts. i believe.

either way chevy WILL update there camaro, they will not just hand their sales over to ford....thats just dumb.

Why would GM have to update? their camaro has more HP and IRS... i don't see what they have to update? explain...

You mean to tell me GM has to update a 426hp camaro w/track tuned IRS because a 412hp log axle mustang came out?

[Jinx]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Cams only 05-10 4.6...~350 rwhp.

Cam (singular) only LS3....~480 rwhp.


Thats all the reason I need.

2010 Mustang GT...... 280rwhp stock.....-....350rwhp.......= 70rwhp

.....so a 25% increase in power

2010 Camaro SS....... 380rwhp stock......-....480rwhp.......= 100rwhp

......so a 26.4% increase in power


wow..... a 1.4% difference in power gain response from the LS3. That would make anyone jump to the bowtie side if they saw numbers like that.

Thats a 25% power increase from a dinosaur modular design. Not to mention from a 3v. I expect better gains from a fresh, brand-new, engine design with 4v. Everyone is expecting this thing to behave JUST like a modular (4.6,5.4,6.4). It may have underlying laws it cant overcome due to engine size which may show similarities with its similar displacement modular, but the characteristics in mod response, powerband, and etc could be night and day difference.

So even if it had an average of 1.4% less gain response than a LS3, I could live with that knowing it weighs less.

[SWAT 79]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Cams only 05-10 4.6...~350 rwhp.

Cam (singular) only LS3....~480 rwhp.


Thats all the reason I need.

You get 100 rwhp from just a cam?

[drksthr]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/18/i...-mustangs-5-0/

[Jinx]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

You get 100 rwhp from just a cam?

lol. its his numbers. I just use them.

[ULTRAZLS1]

The term cam only means cam plus all supporting mods. Usually from members on this site full exhaust, CAI, tune and a cam will get you 480rwhp. Some cam only cars have hit 500rwhp and the smaller cams around 460. Hell cai, exhaust and a tune will get you 400 at the wheels. Something thats nearly impossible for an NA 4.6.

Why lol...whats LOL is that a stock ls3 puts down more than a full bolt on and cams mustang .

You can say what you want and add it up however you want to make you sleep better. But the fact remains you can make 500 at the wheels with an NA LS3 without even removing the heads when you would be lucky to hit over 350 on the 4.6 without removing the heads.

[fdjizm]

Originally Posted by fdjizm

Why would GM have to update? their camaro has more HP and IRS... i don't see what they have to update? explain...

You mean to tell me GM has to update a 426hp camaro w/track tuned IRS because a 412hp log axle mustang came out?

Someone answer this question..

[Jinx]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The term cam only means cam plus all supporting mods. Usually from members on this site full exhaust, CAI, tune and a cam will get you 480rwhp. Some cam only cars have hit 500rwhp and the smaller cams around 460. Hell cai, exhaust and a tune will get you 400 at the wheels. Something thats nearly impossible for an NA 4.6.

Why lol...whats LOL is that a stock ls3 puts down more than a full bolt on and cams mustang

You can say what you want and add it up however you want to make you sleep better. But the fact remains you can make 500 at the wheels with an NA LS3 without even removing the heads when you would be lucky to hit over 350 on the 4.6 without removing the heads.

I hope it could exceed 400 at the wheel if it was rated at 435hp at the crank with bolt-ons.
Considering the 4.6 has gained at a similar rate from the modest 315hp. Most Mustang GT with the 3v 4.6 do exceed (at the wheels) the quoted 315hp with full bolt-ons.

So again, we are talking and trying to enjoy speculation of the ALL NEW 5.0L, and not the 4.6L.
Never lost sleep. Im not arguing the 4.6L is weaker; that was the reason Ive been considering the Camaro. But this 2011 Mustang GT throws a wrench in it.

No need for name calling (ex. prick), just using the numbers you have supplied toward this discussion.

I seemed to me that you are questioning Ford's engineering ability to produce a car that has the potential and power yield; since this is a 2011 Mustang GT vs. 2010 Camaro SS discussion; and not a 2010 Mustang GT vs. 2010 Camaro SS discussion.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by fdjizm

Why would GM have to update? their camaro has more HP and IRS... i don't see what they have to update? explain...

You mean to tell me GM has to update a 426hp camaro w/track tuned IRS because a 412hp log axle mustang came out?

i know you agree with me.

the camaro needs a suspension option that is tuned to cater to us track fiends (tracks with turns). a set up that actually makes the camaro fun to drive on the track. (every review has stated that it is just to much of a hassle to be fun). the current camaro is great, and it dominates the mustang.....until you put a track pack on that mustang. a mustang that was 100hp down competed, sometimes favorably, against the camaro. and now that the mustang is getting more power, the camaro won't be able to simply muscle its way through to a faster time around a track.

the camaro NEEDS a suspension, gears optional, package to stay ahead of a mustang around the track.

straight line is a different story that i dont care about

[fdjizm]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

i know you agree with me.

the camaro needs a suspension option that is tuned to cater to us track fiends (tracks with turns). a set up that actually makes the camaro fun to drive on the track. (every review has stated that it is just to much of a hassle to be fun). the current camaro is great, and it dominates the mustang.....until you put a track pack on that mustang. a mustang that was 100hp down competed, sometimes favorably, against the camaro. and now that the mustang is getting more power, the camaro won't be able to simply muscle its way through to a faster time around a track.

the camaro NEEDS a suspension, gears optional, package to stay ahead of a mustang around the track.

straight line is a different story that i dont care about

I can't disagree or agree at this time LOL

but the "messiah" of IRS and beast LS3 should not be taken down by a log axle stang with 100 less HP according to ALOT of our camaro5 users on here.. whether it be reality or not that is what is generally said about the camaro.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Ok....so it actually makes you feel better about being well over 100whp behind by just telling yourself its a smaller motor? This is true...and this is why I dont want one. Rather simple.

What ive gathered so far from the mustang crowd.

#1. the camaro is equal to the mustang stock for stock.

#2. The head to head comparisons are bs.

#3. Even though you can achieve 500whp cam only from an ls3 this isnt something to be interested in.

#4. The 2011 GT will take over the world.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by fdjizm

I can't disagree or agree at this time LOL

but the "messiah" of IRS and beast LS3 should not be taken down by a log axle stang with 100 less HP according to ALOT of our camaro5 users on here.. whether it be reality or not that is what is generally said about the camaro.

IRS is no doubt more advanced. the camaro's problem is how it is tuned. its more of a touring car than a track car.

[Jinx]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Ok....so it actually makes you feel better about being well over 100whp behind by just telling yourself its a smaller motor?This is true...and this is why I dont want one. Rather simple.

First, I never said they were equal. They yield increases at a similar rate. So the "bolt-ons on a Mustang is useless" is weak.

Second, you seem to like to keep referring back to the 4.6L as if that what it will be in 2011. Ive been trying discussing the 5.0L.

What ive gathered so far from the mustang crowd.

#1. the camaro is equal to the mustang stock for stock.

-Not in the Mustang crowd, Ive been a 5thgen supporter and a moderator for 5thgen.org (aka ModernCamaro) for since 2007. Like I said, I like to remain objective and consider all angles. Im not the fanboi, bandwagon, or crowd type.


#2. The head to head comparisons are bs.

If that how you feel, ok. Will head to head comparison be BS for a 2011 Mustang and 2011 Camaro in the future?

#3. Even though you can achieve 500whp cam only from an ls3 this isnt something to be interested in.

It is, that why Ive been a supporter this long in the Camaro. But the potential could be there for a 5.0L DOHC 4v powered 2011 Mustang GT as well. So again, viewing all angles.

#4. The 2011 GT will take over the world.

So could Chuck Norris, but he has mercy.

Ok

[BowtieGuy]

Originally Posted by fdjizm

It's weird that you want to go back in time with technology such as a push rod motor but freely bash an "ancient" solid rear axle? lol which side are you on because it's not technologies.

Ha. Considering the first overhead valve engine was designed by David Dunbar Buick in 1902, the same year that Henry Ford's legendary 999 race car was being propelled by an overhead camshaft engine...this argument always cracks me up.