03-29-2010, 05:37 PM | #29 |
Hail to the King baby!
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Well you would have to call them a "sin" if they were clean sheet new architecture executions.
But when you get into the business of developing cars you start to understand that both cars are where they are based on a multitude of equations being balanced. The Mustang has a solid rear axle simply because that is what the architecture was developed around. And it is clear that you can tune it to provide some pretty good results. Some of the magazines have even picked the Mustang as the better handling car. A solide rear axle is cheaper, weighs less and can be pretty robust. So unless you find your customers avoiding you for this trait, you are better off spending your money elsewhere, like on the interior, another area where some argue the Mustang is supperior. Now the Camaro is based heavily on the Zeta 1 architecture from Holden. You can't very easily take an architecture the size of a Holden Commodore and shrink it to the degree you find "perfect". It in fact would no longer be a shared architecture and the shared parts and solutions would be lost. So I'll propose that if you size up the Mustang to be the same size as a Camaro and put an IRS under the rear end you would find a car that strangely weighs about what a Camaro does. I don't mind the size of the Camaro, I kind of prefer it. A bigger car will weigh more without expensive premium materials. So to your original question, I can't consider either of these sins as I know they are the way they are from where they came from. And in both cases they have made the best of those roots. And in my opinion, the Camaro is the better package.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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03-29-2010, 05:47 PM | #30 |
Banned
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it's funny how so many owners want that "sophistication" that the IRS brings, but then when it comes to something like the rough idle from the pushrod engine, they just brush it off as nothing.
just an observation, i don't want to turn this into Mustang vs camaro, so i'll just leave that. personally, i think the weight is a bigger issue than the solid axle since it effects handling, braking and acceleration. the camaro was just put on a platform that it probably shouldn't have been. btw, a properly designed IRS should not weigh much more, if anything, than a solid axle. the cobras (such as mine) lose about 120 lbs. from the switch over because the subframe that had to be designed afterwards in order for it to work properly. |
03-29-2010, 05:48 PM | #31 | |
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Quote:
Inside Line 64.7 2009 Challenger R/T 65.0 2009 Mercedes E63 66.0 2009 Challenger SRT-8 68.4 2010 Mustang GT (track pack) 68.5 2009 BMW M5 68.6 2010 Camaro SS 71.1 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 71.6 2009 Porsche 911 GT2 74.0 2009 Nissan GT-R 74.7 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Road & Track 65.0 2009 Challenger SRT-8 66.2 2009 Bentley Continental GT Speed 66.5 2010 Camaro RS 66.8 2010 Camaro SS 67.4 2009 Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG 69.4 2010 Mustang GT 70.1 2009 Cadillac CTS-V 70.2 2009 Dodge Viper SRT10 71.2 2009 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 72.2 2009 Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 73.4 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 |
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03-29-2010, 05:59 PM | #32 | |
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Quote:
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03-29-2010, 06:42 PM | #33 |
Banned
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Blame the safety features.
I do. |
03-29-2010, 07:12 PM | #34 |
Pinholic
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The Camaro rides much better than my GT500....but I did'nt like the feeling that I was sitting in a bucket with the Camaro. The Camaro was smooth...the GT500 is more of an agressive beast. Both have good brakes. I do like the fact that the GT500 takes up a bit less space in the garage than a Camaro does.
I've got a vert...so it probably weighs more than the Camaro anyhow. Its hard to believe that a car that size weighs that much, but when you look under it you do find a lot of beefy items. And its much stiffer than the convertibles we grew up with. Hopefully the Camaro convertible will feel as good when it finally comes out. But for guys used to Camaros its really gonna feel porky I'm sure.
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Almost had a 2SS/RS, IOM, orange accent interior, 6 speed manual, sunroof & polished wheels
ordered 01/19/07 3000 - 2/27/09 3400 - 3/27/09 3800 - 4/17/09 (built and lost in the vortex) ship date ??????? (I gave up and got a GT500) 5/11/09 - order cancelled 5/27/09 - vehicle arrived at dealership for whoever bought it after me |
03-29-2010, 07:15 PM | #35 | |
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I love the Terminator..but a spade is a spade...I do miss the low end TQ..but that is really all I miss.. JMO..
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03-29-2010, 07:16 PM | #36 | |
MIC
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Quote:
THe Camaro is 75.5" wide. The 2010 ZR1 Corvette is 75.9" wide without mirrors. Porkiness????????? |
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03-29-2010, 07:34 PM | #37 |
Red Big Block Camaro
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the camaro has the power to back up the weight. the mustang is light because of a smaller engine and tranny. and about the chally having a faster slalom? i have read A LOT of comparos and none have shown the challenger as having a better slalom than the camaro
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my 1970 Camaro RS. Frame off restoration. 600 HP 454 Naturally Aspirated. GM Performance Heads, Comp Mechanical cam, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 750 Carb. Hooker and Flowmaster exhaust system. Victory Red paint, True Rally Sport.
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03-29-2010, 07:44 PM | #38 |
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The Camaro is perfect, I think these 2010 Camaro's are the best looking Camaro's ever made.
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03-29-2010, 07:50 PM | #39 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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Find a single car on the road with the Camaro's specs and lighter weight. There isn't one. Even the 'almighty' germans don't deliver.
Enough with the weight comments, as far as I'm concerned...because they're baseless when put in context. Would you like them to revert back to Live axle to save some pounds? EDIT: Oh, and newsflash...we're talking about an inch or so in every direction to "match" the Mustang in dimensions. EDIT2: The CTS-V May drove weighs 4300lbs....... |
03-29-2010, 08:33 PM | #40 |
Account Suspended
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That's a very good point. A 451hp/6.3L V8 lil' ol' Mercedes C63 as in "C Class" weighs 3924lbs.......that's more than the Camaro.
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03-29-2010, 08:55 PM | #41 | |
Semper Fi Camaro
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Quote:
Did the same driver make all the runs??? Were they done on the dame day/temp/etc???? How many miles on the vehicle/tires??/ If a driver wanted to make one car look better they only needed to exaggerate their steering inputs slightly to reduce the times, as well as push another car harder/tighter to make a better time. that is why I feel that these tests are just that a test, and are subjective to those that complete the tests. Bottom line______________ You drive what you like, for that reason, you like it. Me, I love my Camaro.It handles beautifully, looks awesome, Is a true beast to drive, and simply put is more fun to drive..... IMHO anyway. :h appyanim:
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03-29-2010, 08:55 PM | #42 |
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What does this have to do with weight or a solid axle?
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