Muscle car or Not

[hb35man]

Originally Posted by BLACK10

i agree, most muscle cars were not "fast" compared to today's cars. but different times/different technology

You're absolutely right.New technology has given us fast(by anyones standards) comfortable,excellent handling cars at an affordable price with room for the DIY enthusiast to improve it to his or her liking. BTW this would be my first muscle car( I bought it in the fall of'69 w/10K miles on it)

1969 Ford Torino Cobra (CD)
428ci/335hp, 3spd auto, 3.50, 0-60 - 5.6, 1/4 mile - 14.04 @ 100.61mph

[obe1]

Tire technology has also come a long way from the 60's. Both street and track tires have come a long way for added grip that taxes drivetrains.

[mstrfdsstr]

Originally Posted by 570hp-lpe

I disagree with the OP.. this is a 1st year car..!!! Trans problems were related to heat treating of the output shaft, and incorrect tolerances. GM corrected this.

Axle problem - It's not GM's Problem if people abuse their car by inducing wheelhop and snap the CV joint.

I havn't broken anything yet.. and I have way more HP than stock.

I have already upgraded the Axles as they will break (due to wheelhop) or a lot of track time. My car will spend most of it's time at the tracks in my area.

I think GM built a good all-around product. What you do after you pick it up is up to you..

broken output shafts jurys out on whether or not its fixed mine just broke two weeks ago after 15000 miles vin 9862 in the same place as rhe output shaft thread the dealer found every reason to deniey the claim and gm went along with them what is abuse to a muscle car?

[ron10]

[motorhead]

Having the power to break shit makes it a muscle all the way. How many toyotas and hondas do you here breaking axles and trannys upon a launch.

[spoone123]

Originally Posted by 570hp-lpe

I disagree with the OP.. this is a 1st year car..!!! Trans problems were related to heat treating of the output shaft, and incorrect tolerances. GM corrected this.

Axle problem - It's not GM's Problem if people abuse their car by inducing wheelhop and snap the CV joint.

I havn't broken anything yet.. and I have way more HP than stock.

I have already upgraded the Axles as they will break (due to wheelhop) or a lot of track time. My car will spend most of it's time at the tracks in my area.

I think GM built a good all-around product. What you do after you pick it up is up to you..

Can i have your camaro?

[Camaro_hx]

Im agreeing with "baysinger", these components need to be optimized/designed to take on tougher condition without having to always think "WARRANTY".

We all know that older camaros where built tougher, we need that feel to our 2010 camaros.

DEAR GM,

PLEASE DO SOMETHING.

[CDBiker220]

Older cars were not built tougher. Ive had older cars and they broke all the time. My 71 Chevelle with only 400hp would blow up muncie four speeds like it was it's job. Those transmissions were weak as hell. The TR6060 in our cars is rated to 650 ft-lbs, they put our tranny in vipers and zr1's. If i put 650 ft-lbs into an old muncie it would last 2 shifts. Maybe an old M-22 rockcrusher could hold alittle better. But the the normal muncie used in 95% of the camaros and chevelles, even SS's, cant compare to what we have today. The only issues we had was due to a bad batch of parts.

[Camaro_hx]

Fair enough

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by baysinger

I have been reading these threads for several months now and have concluded not so much muscle. My first real muscle car was a 1967 Chevelle 396/375hp. We use to street race almost every Friday and Saturday night. We never had any trans/drivetrain breakage. We would burn a clutch every now and then but nothing compared to to the problems I read about every day on these threads. GM I am sure is aware of these issues but other than warranty has no interest is taking real CORRECTIVE ACTION to prevent these problems from repeating. I do not like the fact I have to worry about any driveline failures everytime I am challenged at a red light by a mustang. These cars have a great engine. plenty of hp, but the trans/driveline/rearend leave a lot to be desired. The aftermarket suppliers of stronger components are going to have a field day. I bought my car 6 months ago and really love it but have little confidence in the drivetrane. I would be very cautious about buying one again unless these issues are addressed by GM. By the way, the muscle cars of the 60's HP were very underrated to keep down insurance costs. They were over 400hp from the factory. To those making engine mods for more hp be sure and beef up your drivetrane or you will pay the piper. Forget warranty

Mayhaps its just that in the late 60s you didn't have 10s of thousands of fellow owners sharing their experiences with you at the touch of a button?
- X

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by baysinger

I have been reading these threads for several months now and have concluded not so much muscle. My first real muscle car was a 1967 Chevelle 396/375hp. We use to street race almost every Friday and Saturday night. We never had any trans/drivetrain breakage. We would burn a clutch every now and then but nothing compared to to the problems I read about every day on these threads. GM I am sure is aware of these issues but other than warranty has no interest is taking real CORRECTIVE ACTION to prevent these problems from repeating. I do not like the fact I have to worry about any driveline failures everytime I am challenged at a red light by a mustang. These cars have a great engine. plenty of hp, but the trans/driveline/rearend leave a lot to be desired. The aftermarket suppliers of stronger components are going to have a field day. I bought my car 6 months ago and really love it but have little confidence in the drivetrane. I would be very cautious about buying one again unless these issues are addressed by GM. By the way, the muscle cars of the 60's HP were very underrated to keep down insurance costs. They were over 400hp from the factory. To those making engine mods for more hp be sure and beef up your drivetrane or you will pay the piper. Forget warranty

Comparing the two time periods is not fair, frankly. The internet wasn't around back then to concentrate any problems experienced with a vehicle...inherently designed or the results of user-abuse....I'd be willing to bet that, overall -- the cars back then broke far more often than these do.

You must remember -- we are a SMALL group of people, and the fact is that any issues experienced here are few and far between.

EDIT: Oh, and don't worry about the drivetrain. Just don't regularly drop at 6000 and you'll be fine.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Comparing the two time periods is not fair, frankly. The internet wasn't around back then to concentrate any problems experienced with a vehicle...inherently designed or the results of user-abuse....I'd be willing to bet that, overall -- the cars back then broke far more often than these do.

You must remember -- we are a SMALL group of people, and the fact is that any issues experienced here are few and far between.

EDIT: Oh, and don't worry about the drivetrain. Just don't regularly drop at 6000 and you'll be fine.

Hmm. You said what I said, but used more words.
- X

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Xanthos

Hmm. You said what I said, but used more words.
- X

You posted yours while I was writing mine...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

You posted yours while I was writing mine...

We've done that a number of times, or I'd get to the last page and see that you'd stolen my thoughts before I even had them.