Calling Shorty Header Owners

[Inferno2SS]

Steve, I think I am going to stay away form Shorties. After seeing these results and comments from Jannetty in the other thread, I dont think they are worth the money.

Definitely going to do a CAI though.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Steve

Inferno2SS, Obviously we are thinking alike. However, my research over the past week has me believing we can install the CAI and ST Headers and not void the warranty plus gain some noticeable HP. I am feeling OK with this for now. I picked the Doug Thorley ST headers and Cold Air Inductions CAI at this point.

Do you really think DT shorties is going to give you any gains? If it does, do you really think it will be more than 5 or so hp? Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, is what you need to keep saying.

[Inferno2SS]

Originally Posted by axis

Do you really think DT shorties is going to give you any gains? If it does, do you really think it will be more than 5 or so hp? Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, is what you need to keep saying.

Obviously some of us didnt know. It would be like me asking you questions about PHP or Javascript, unless you are a web developer you would have no clue how to answer it. We all have our areas of expertise, that is why its nice to come a forum like this to ask questions and learn from other members experiences and knowledge.

If you look at the other 10+ threads on this subject there is a TON of conflicting information which makes it tough for guys like me to make educated decisions.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Inferno2SS

Obviously some of us didnt know. It would be like me asking you questions about PHP or Javascript, unless you are a web developer you would have no clue how to answer it. We all have our areas of expertise, that is why its nice to come a forum like this to ask questions and learn from other members experiences and knowledge.

If you look at the other 10+ threads on this subject there is a TON of conflicting information which makes it tough for guys like me to make educated decisions.

I'm not a expert on exhaust but I do read a lot and listen to the people that know. The ONLY people that claimed these gains were either selling them or spouting off what the manufacturer listed. From the threads that I read, NO ONE had proof of HP gains. There were a lot of conjectures about what setup would make the most but nothing concrete. The one thing that came up over and over was that it wouldn't void your warranty and would pass visual inspection. I think people saw that and got blinded to everything else. The shops that have a assortment of parts for sale and are HONEST, will tell you the straight up deal. There have been several well known shops that have either directly or indirectly said there's no way shorties make anywhere near those gains. They were the same on the LS1 and LS2 cars. Seeing that only one company offered up their shorties to be tested should have been a BIG indicator. I know hindsight is 20/20 but all the indicators were there.

A big thanks to TSP for posting their results.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by axis

Do you really think DT shorties is going to give you any gains? If it does, do you really think it will be more than 5 or so hp? Whatever makes you feel good about yourself, is what you need to keep saying.

Axis - I understand your point of view about the manufacturer making the claim but on the DT site they show a dyno where their shorties are doing 20HP. Perhaps I will make a call to DT and speak with them directly. (and ask why they did not offer to take part in the shorties shoot out)

[axis]

Originally Posted by Steve

Axis - I understand your point of view about the manufacturer making the claim but on the DT site they show a dyno where their shorties are doing 20HP. Perhaps I will make a call to DT and speak with them directly. (and ask why they did not offer to take part in the shorties shoot out)

So when is a picture of a dyno graph from a manufacturer, proof? You don't know anything about how they tested other than a final pic. There are many things that could affect the final number that have nothing to do with the part being tested. I don't want to come off as more of an ass than you already think but NEVER trust a manufacturers claims. ALWAYS, use some common sense when looking at parts. There are also several shops that you can call to get the real scoop. There are several on this site. Compare the pics of shorties to LT's and you'll see where they come up short. The BIG thing is collection area. LT's transition smoothly to the collector while shorties have abrupt curves into the collector. Intake as well as exhaust is all about how smooth you can keep the flow of air.

We can all tell you what they will say.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by axis

So when is a picture of a dyno graph from a manufacturer, proof? You don't know anything about how they tested other than a final pic. There are many things that could affect the final number that have nothing to do with the part being tested. I don't want to come off as more of an ass than you already think but NEVER trust a manufacturers claims. ALWAYS, use some common sense when looking at parts. There are also several shops that you can call to get the real scoop. There are several on this site. Compare the pics of shorties to LT's and you'll see where they come up short. The BIG thing is collection area. LT's transition smoothly to the collector while shorties have abrupt curves into the collector. Intake as well as exhaust is all about how smooth you can keep the flow of air.

We can all tell you what they will say.

I was originally set to do LT headers, high flow cats, CAI and a tuner. Then I found out that this will void the balance of the warranty, something I am not willing to give up this early in the game (it's the tune that breaks the warranty). I retreated to LT headers, CAI and HF cats when I was told this would produce an engine light, again requiring the tuner to fix. I was told the HF cats will cause the problem and not sure about the LT headers. I am now down to what I believe will provide gains without canceling the warranty, shorties and a CAI. Another person on this site told me to look into shorties as they are doing some pretty good gains with them (while not as much as LT headers).

PS - I don't think you as an ass. I don't know you personally and would understand you believe wholly in what you are talking about, and more than that, as this is new to me you may very well know much more about it than I. I am just trying to feel my way through this.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Steve

I was originally set to do LT headers, high flow cats, CAI and a tuner. Then I found out that this will void the balance of the warranty, something I am not willing to give up this early in the game (it's the tune that breaks the warranty). I retreated to LT headers, CAI and HF cats when I was told this would produce an engine light, again requiring the tuner to fix. I was told the HF cats will cause the problem and not sure about the LT headers. I am now down to what I believe will provide gains without canceling the warranty, shorties and a CAI. Another person on this site told me to look into shorties as they are doing some pretty good gains with them (while not as much as LT headers).

PS - I don't think you as an ass. I don't know you personally and would understand you believe wholly in what you are talking about, and more than that, as this is new to me you may very well know much more about it than I. I am just trying to feel my way through this.

You need a tune with LT's because they throw a cat efficiency code from being moved further away from the stock location. The O2 sensors wont' heat up as quickly, thus throw the code. To my knowledge, highflow cats should pass a sniffer test. I'm not 100% sure on this as i've never run them. We don't have inspections in Ark anymore. Did the person that told you that shorties are showing good gains have any proof? Did they have them themselves and had REAL data to back up their claims? There are a LOT OF PEOPLE on here and everyone has an opinion. The challenge is sifting through all the BS and coming out with what the real deal is. I'd suggest you read around and find a group of people that KNOW what their talking about. There are always those few people on every board. Ted with Jannetty racing is a GREAT place to start. He's shown to give his unbiased opinion on just about everything, whether he sells their products or not. I tend to take his opinion a little more seriously than most others. There are a few people that I listen to more than others but you'll need to find those others for yourself.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by axis

You need a tune with LT's because they throw a cat efficiency code from being moved further away from the stock location. The O2 sensors wont' heat up as quickly, thus throw the code. To my knowledge, highflow cats should pass a sniffer test. I'm not 100% sure on this as i've never run them. We don't have inspections in Ark anymore. Did the person that told you that shorties are showing good gains have any proof? Did they have them themselves and had REAL data to back up their claims? There are a LOT OF PEOPLE on here and everyone has an opinion. The challenge is sifting through all the BS and coming out with what the real deal is. I'd suggest you read around and find a group of people that KNOW what their talking about. There are always those few people on every board. Ted with Jannetty racing is a GREAT place to start. He's shown to give his unbiased opinion on just about everything, whether he sells their products or not. I tend to take his opinion a little more seriously than most others. There are a few people that I listen to more than others but you'll need to find those others for yourself.

Thanks Axis. I started this whole search with Ted so maybe it wouldn't hurt to go back to him.

[SA CHEVY]

Hey Steve if you do call DT and ask them about there shorties and why they didn't compete in the shoot out I'm sure a lot of the guys on here would be interested to hear about it. Let us know if you contact them and what they say.

[barrylnv]

Originally Posted by Steve

Hey guys - I have been riding an emotional rollercoaster over this issue over the past couple of weeks. I was ready to buy Ted's (Jannetty) kit of LT headers, HF Cats, CAI, and tuner to get his stated 415HP at the wheels until I saw the thread about GM canceling the warranty on any machine that had a tune put on it. I don't want to dump the warranty at this point, and to be truthful all I would like to have at the wheels is 400HP. I am running a 1SS with a M6 and had the impression I was getting about 370HP at the wheels stock. I am not so sure this is really the case based on this thread, can anyone tell me if this is realistic? In any case I was going on the word of DT for their ST Headers being at 20HP and counting on the Cold Air Inductions CAI intake of 11-12HP. Both look like great products and racers have been using ceramic coating for heat management and additional HP for many years. So if it were true the combination of 20HP plus 11HP would be 31HP, added to the 370HP would get me the 400HP I was looking for. It looks like I may come up short? I don't plan on doing a dyno any time soon. Maybe if I am just short I will still be happy with the extra HP I do get until the warranty runs out.

Hey Steve - from experience, on a LS3, you probably are about 370 RWHP right now if running 93 octane. If you do shorties and a good CAI you'll end up about 386-390 at most. I'm not sure if you could get to 400 with a tune, probably not, or maybe really, really close. You can't just add up HP gains, whether claimed per part by manufacturer or people here, each combination is going to be slightly different and not the sum of gains. If you want a real 400 RWHP you will need either longtubes and tune or longtubes and CAI. But, as you say, it is totally fine to have piece of mind, keep the warranty, get a little gain, and have an awesome looking car with awesome looking parts on it! Nothing wrong with that

[Steve]

Originally Posted by barrylnv

Hey Steve - from experience, on a LS3, you probably are about 370 RWHP right now if running 93 octane. If you do shorties and a good CAI you'll end up about 386-390 at most. I'm not sure if you could get to 400 with a tune, probably not, or maybe really, really close. You can't just add up HP gains, whether claimed per part by manufacturer or people here, each combination is going to be slightly different and not the sum of gains. If you want a real 400 RWHP you will need either longtubes and tune or longtubes and CAI. But, as you say, it is totally fine to have piece of mind, keep the warranty, get a little gain, and have an awesome looking car with awesome looking parts on it! Nothing wrong with that

What you say sounds logical (sorry it is the Spock in me). If it comes down to 386-390 and keeping the warranty I might be OK with that. If ultimately it is the DT ST headers I go with, I have seen a couple comments on this site about how sharp they are (ie. SSMIKE).

Originally Posted by barrylnv

Hey Steve if you do call DT and ask them about there shorties and why they didn't compete in the shoot out I'm sure a lot of the guys on here would be interested to hear about it. Let us know if you contact them and what they say.

Barrylnv - I have taken Thursday off from work and I plan on calling DT and Ted Jannetty. I will post my conversational results here.

Thanks for the help guys.

[iBK3000]

Steve I want to do the DT shorties and CAI too, the DT's are in the mail. I think I am going to return them though because there is not enough evidence to justify the cost. Let me know if you find out otherwise in the next couple days.

[barrylnv]

Originally Posted by Steve

What you say sounds logical (sorry it is the Spock in me). If it comes down to 386-390 and keeping the warranty I might be OK with that. If ultimately it is the DT ST headers I go with, I have seen a couple comments on this site about how sharp they are (ie. SSMIKE).



Barrylnv - I have taken Thursday off from work and I plan on calling DT and Ted Jannetty. I will post my conversational results here.

Thanks for the help guys.

They are sharp, I'll give you that. Here's a pic of mine with the DT re-installed towards the end of the LPE 650 process.