Putting down up to 50hp more at the wheels without engine mods

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

i am willing to bet you or any one that a fully Pedderized Camaro will outperform a stock Camaro with engine upgrades to 550hp at the rear tires at a course like Gingerman.

So why do you think that is?

mike
dms

[slicker]

+1

[mtcwby]

Originally Posted by dms

i am willing to bet you or any one that a fully Pedderized Camaro will outperform a stock Camaro with engine upgrades to 550hp at the rear tires at a course like Gingerman.

So why do you think that is?

mike
dms

Yes, I know that it will outperform a stock Camaro. But there's no way it will increase RWHP up to 50 HP over the car without it. All it will do is make the HP more readily useable, by getting it on the ground. But the suspension will not make HP on the dyno. Your statement was very misleading. You'll have guys putting on your suspension and then redynoing their cars, expecting to see more HP. It's just not going to happen.
You can say the same thing with just buying drag radials. They will make the car quicker, but they don't add HP. They just help you get the HP that you are already producing, to the ground.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by mtcwby

Yes, I know that it will outperform a stock Camaro. But there's no way it will increase RWHP up to 50 HP over the car without it. All it will do is make the HP more readily useable, by getting it on the ground. But the suspension will not make HP on the dyno. Your statement was very misleading. You'll have guys putting on your suspension and then redynoing their cars, expecting to see more HP. It's just not going to happen.
You can say the same thing with just buying drag radials. They will make the car quicker, but they don't add HP. They just help you get the HP that you are already producing, to the ground.

You are starting to get it. What is better, getting to $550hp at the rear wheels at $10k or spending $3k to make your hp you have seriously more efficient? I can tell you the suspension mod update will get you higher track ETs at a track like Gingerman than spending $10k to get 550hp at the rear. Male hormones are involved here. If you look at a balanced approach, your true effectiveness will be off the charts.

mike
dms

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Spending $8k to $10K on getting serious HP is not being efficient if you do not have the chasis set up to be able to handle the hp.

Is this marketing our products? Absolutely. Is it bringing up a point for all of you to consider to make your vehicle more efficient? Absolutely.

Last year I did a training Charger at a shop that spent $15,000 on hp gains. He did have the suspension enhanced with our Track II system. He also had some $8,000 wheels and tires installed, and the car looked absolutely hot as heck. But the wheels and tires weighed 78lbs a piece. So he added 132 pounds of unsprung weight, but also added some monster brakes. The effects of the heavy wheels is serious for hp. I believe the ratio is 1hp to 2lbs of unsprung weight. So the wheels cost him 66hp at the rear wheels. Did he loose the hp at the flywheel? No. He effectivelly lost the hp in practical application. This really will not show up much on a dyno, but will show up in actual performance.

I talk to Camaro owners daily that are spending $5,000 to $25,000 on engine performance enhancement, then call me and tell me they need some help in putting down the actual hp, but do not have any budget left.

Don't I ask you what is the cost of 50hp gains at the rear wheels??

What is the cost of 100hp gains at the rear wheels??

I am interested in seeing what everyone's perspective is on this. I have some numbers but want the numbers to come from this community and not me.

I have 2 examples assisting a autocrosser and a part time road coarse or track day driver. Both had blowers installed, and the tracker also had long tubes and a custom programmer. The auto crosser actually lost time on his effective auto crossing, because of the added weight in the front, the increase in understeer, and the inability to put down any additional hp.

The tracker gained a half second on his road coarse. The only variable was the weather. But his Camaro understeered more and was only able to gain some acceleration on the straights, but lost in thru the twisties.

Do drag racers only focus on how fast they can accelerate, or should you look at the entire package on the ability to launch and improve your 60 foot times?

So the purpose this thread is to open everyone's minds and not just think about the hormone inducing engine power needs, but to think about a balance of hp and suspension to be able to able to be more efficient.

I am willing to bet if we take a stock SS that has say 550hp at the rear, and a stock SS with a full Pedders system, the stock Pedderized Camaro, will eat the lunch of the 550hp Camaro at Gingerman race track. If there are any Camaros who would like to challenge me on this at Gingerman, just ask.


The fact that guy(s) are mentiioning that suspension will not increase a hp on a dyno, means you totally do not understand what I am talking about. One last analogy. Chatted yesterday with a guy who is part of a 13 man pit crew for a GT2(??) car. They have a $10,000,000 budget a year to run this ride, and have yet to be under budget. They have 3-4 engineers, including one that fly in from Germany for every race, to set up these rides for each race. These engineers are 100% involved with the suspension setup. No engineer is there for the motor. There is a representative at the track who makes these motors for a multitude of rides. So the emphasis is primarily on suspension and handling, not on hp. Hope this helps
thanks
mike
dms
__________________

[mtcwby]

No Mike, I'm not starting to get it, it is something I already get completely. We are not all just a bunch of ignorant idiots. Mike, You should have reworded your original post. It is very misleading.
I fully understand that suspension will make your HP more useful. But that is not what you said in your post. You will not ADD HP with suspension, only make it more useable.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

How do you measure the horsepower of a light bulb?

How do you measure the horsepower of a horse?

I am still challenging any Camaro in the Michigan area putting down 550hp at the rear wheels to compete with us on a Pedderized Camaro at Gingerman!

I am interested in feed back on this. I want to understand what all of you feel or expect what your Camaros can actually do with 550hp at the rear.

thanks
mike
dms

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by mtcwby

No Mike, I'm not starting to get it, it is something I already get completely. We are not all just a bunch of ignorant idiots. Mike, You should have reworded your original post. It is very misleading.
I fully understand that suspension will make your HP more useful. But that is not what you said in your post. You will not ADD HP with suspension, only make it more useable.

We are both correct. But the difference I am talking about is true effective hp, and not dyno hp. If you increase your effeciency, are you not increasing your true hp to the ground?

mike
dms

[toehead93]

I think he's saying if you dyno the same car twice and only change the wheels/tires you will have different numbers. If you run the first dyno with stock wheels and tires you'll get 370rwhp. Now if you add light weight racing wheels, lighter tires, carbon fiber drive shaft, lighter rotors you reduce unsprung weight which makes the car more efficient. In doing so you will now dyno more ppower to the rear wheels. So yes, you can increase RWHP with compenents that don't increase engine HP. You can make it more efficient with bushings to tak flex out of the drivetrain and better suspension means better balance which reduces track times.

[danhr]

I did not once say that a proper suspension setup isn't vital. That fact you say that means you haven't read a single post I posted.

Riddle me this

You take a 700 rwhp car. You throw a set of street tires on it. You go to the track and it runs an 11.5. You then put a set of slicks on it, which weigh the exact same as the street tires, same wheel weight/size, same tire size, etc. The car runs a 10.5, as it can actually be launched.

Using your theory, those wheels and tires added 100 rwhp.

Or you take the front swap bar off a car, and gain .1 off your 1/4. Removing the sway bar is worth 10 rwhp?

You take 100 lbs out of a car and it gains .2. Removing that weight is worth 25 rwhp?

hell you throw a roll cage in a car and it gains .2 from reduced body flex, does that mean a cage is worth 30 rwhp?

I'm not arguing your components, i'm arguing your marketing.

[SSambumbia]

Mike, don't get frustrated. There are Dyno Queens and
Track Kings, to each their own. I'll take power to the
ground to power to the graph any day. And no I don't
think your post was misleading, I totally understood
the first time.

[Rickerbucks]

Well I appreciate the point that was being made by the OP. Certainly making a dramatic statement to get my attention. It worked and I appreciate it.

All he is trying to point out is that getting the "best perfromance" out of your car is not just about the HP at the crank. That suspension components are cheaper then engine components to improve your ability to get from point A to point B.

I get that that and that is a 'proxy' for impproved HP.

[mike25]

Originally Posted by danhr

I did not once say that a proper suspension setup isn't vital. That fact you say that means you haven't read a single post I posted.

Riddle me this

You take a 700 rwhp car. You throw a set of street tires on it. You go to the track and it runs an 11.5. You then put a set of slicks on it, which weigh the exact same as the street tires, same wheel weight/size, same tire size, etc. The car runs a 10.5, as it can actually be launched.

Using your theory, those wheels and tires added 100 rwhp.

Or you take the front swap bar off a car, and gain .1 off your 1/4. Removing the sway bar is worth 10 rwhp?

You take 100 lbs out of a car and it gains .2. Removing that weight is worth 25 rwhp?

hell you throw a roll cage in a car and it gains .2 from reduced body flex, does that mean a cage is worth 30 rwhp?

I'm not arguing your components, i'm arguing your marketing.

hes simply saying on a circuit track at well tuned(suspension) 500 hp car will out handle a poorly tuned(again-suspension) 550hp car any day of the week because the car cant fully utilize its power...a bit of an overstatement in his initial post....but definitely an eye opener for some..

[RichJ.]

I suppose a better way to say it would be. You can gain an EQUIVALENT of 50 HP by adding better suspension parts.
NO BULL
Always remember RichJ. says. There is more to performance than DYNO numbers. Even if I give theme to you