Putting down up to 50hp more at the wheels without engine mods

[danhr]

Originally Posted by RichJ.

I suppose a better way to say it would be. You can gain an EQUIVALENT of 50 HP by adding better suspension parts.
NO BULL
Always remember RichJ. says. There is more to performance than DYNO numbers. Even if I give theme to you

[2010 SSRS]

confusing post,

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Rickerbucks

Well I appreciate the point that was being made by the OP. Certainly making a dramatic statement to get my attention. It worked and I appreciate it.

All he is trying to point out is that getting the "best perfromance" out of your car is not just about the HP at the crank. That suspension components are cheaper then engine components to improve your ability to get from point A to point B.

I get that that and that is a 'proxy' for impproved HP.

Thank you. You are getting what I am trying to say. So if you add 150hp say to make a 2 second improvement on a lap time for example, you can improve 4 to 6 seconds by improving the suspension at half the time. So I am trying to relate hp gains to actual real world gains to a direct comparison to suspension gains to real world gains. I am thankful that most of you are getting the idea now.

So hp gains are really cool. But they can actually reduce some of your real world true gains in performance. So when you are budgeting and planning hp gains, you should also be thinking in terms of how to update your chassis to improve the efficiency so you can actually have the real hp gains in real world experience. This is the point I was trying to make.

Here is a real world experience. 2 years ago at our Pedders dealer meeting, we had a GTO there with a twin turbo ATI installed putting down in the 600 tp 650 hp at the rear. We had a Pontiac G8 with a Maggie only but enhanced with a custom program. The Maggie added maybe 125hp net at the rear on a dyno. But the GTO had over a hundred hp more at the rear and cost 3 times more to install. We had a drag race. The G8 was 3-4 car lengths ahead at the end at half the cost.

So who was the real winner there and the smart one?

This thread has really been a great thread and has allowed all of us to express their ideas and opinions and now many will expand their thinking on future upgrades. I think it is a successful thread.

thanks to all for participating

mike
dms

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by danhr

Because mileage is determined by countless factors... one being aerodynamics. A lowered car has better aerodynamics. I think 13% is exaggerated, but it is more believable than a bushing adding 50 rwhp.

well, since better aerodymanics produces less drag which would result in better MPG, wouldn't it also increase power put down on the road...?

[danhr]

Originally Posted by brtaus

well, since better aerodymanics produces less drag which would result in better MPG, wouldn't it also increase power put down on the road...?

oohhhhh i understand now

so the better aereodynamics increase the hp

so THAT's why you see imports with 3' wings on the back of their cars. It increases horsepower output

[Indy2010]

I understood the point of the original post as well. No confusion.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Indy2010

I understood the point of the original post as well. No confusion.

Awesome.

Thank you

mike
dms

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by SSambumbia

Mike, don't get frustrated. There are Dyno Queens and
Track Kings, to each their own. I'll take power to the
ground to power to the graph any day. And no I don't
think your post was misleading, I totally understood
the first time.

I am not frustrated at all. In fact I am enjoying this thread. Reading some of the posts and their responses, tells me a post like this is very worth while and educational to those that can open their mind and not let the male hormones kit in which requires them to spend all their money on hp.

Thanks
mike
dms

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by toehead93

I think he's saying if you dyno the same car twice and only change the wheels/tires you will have different numbers. If you run the first dyno with stock wheels and tires you'll get 370rwhp. Now if you add light weight racing wheels, lighter tires, carbon fiber drive shaft, lighter rotors you reduce unsprung weight which makes the car more efficient. In doing so you will now dyno more ppower to the rear wheels. So yes, you can increase RWHP with compenents that don't increase engine HP. You can make it more efficient with bushings to tak flex out of the drivetrain and better suspension means better balance which reduces track times.

What you are saying is in 100% correct. But what I am saying is you cannot, in most cases, use all the hp that you see on a dyno!. Adding the appropriate suspension components will all the useable hp to increase, thus giving you more functional, actual, real life, in the seat of your pants, true horsepower

thanks
mike
dms

[MemphisRaines]

Wow....lots of angst on this thread. Don't take the OP so literally, a couple people have already mentioned it....the OP could have been worded a bit better but come on...I read a lot of your posts and y'all are intelligent enough to figure it out. I didn't think it's misleading but I do have direct experience with the concept.

I've been to the track twice (race track not drag track). First time with my car stock and then with an upgraded suspension (not Pedders). First time I was an average of 4 seconds slower than my instructor who was driving a 1984 Porsche 944 with 150 rwhp (estimated).

A couple weeks later I installed stiffer springs and front and rear sway bars....went back to the same track for another event and this time I was only 1 second slower the the 944. Yes, I did get a little better at driving but the car also performed better. So for less than $1,000 I picked up an average of 3 seconds every time I went around this particular track.

The point the OP was making is maybe I could also have picked up those 3 seconds if I installed a supercharger or added headers or any of the other various ways to add hp. All of those cost more than the $1,000 suspension upgrade.

So, if you want your car to perform better don't get hung up on hp...it's not the only way to get around the track faster...the guy with the most hp won't always win...usually it's the guy with the best brakes, learned that the hard way the past couple weekends.

[Napper]

I was always told when someone upgrades...and doesn't do suspension brakes and driveline....is an Amature.

I've seen similar weighted cars with significant hp desparity and the lower HP car wins why? because the winner wasn't just worried about HP

Balance is ALWAYS the key.

My tuner says if a guy doesn't at least upgrade the brakes.... even just pads, he knows the guy is an amature.

Balance , balance ,balance! tires too ! though stock rubber is pretty good to a point

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Napper

I was always told when someone upgrades...and doesn't do suspension brakes and driveline....is an Amature.

I've seen similar weighted cars with significant hp desparity and the lower HP car wins why? because the winner wasn't just worried about HP

Balance is ALWAYS the key.

My tuner says if a guy doesn't at least upgrade the brakes.... even just pads, he knows the guy is an amature.

Balance , balance ,balance! tires too ! though stock rubber is pretty good to a point

could not have said it any better!!

I am totally into increasing hp in a conservative way! But I am more into balance and efficiency.

I think it was last year on the Speed Channel, there was a very high speed auto cross at a airfield in Southern Ca. Cool because you had seriously pumped up Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches and a 1800hp(?) Viper.Most of the contestants were running over 1000hp at the ground. All of the cars were able to hit speeds into the 200mph. the slowest car was the highest hp Viper. The fastest car was the lowest hp, 685(?) Porsche.

thanks
mike
dms

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by danhr

I gained .1 from taking my front sway bar off... does that mean that's worth roughly 10 rwhp, since that's how much hp it takes to go .10 faster? Or better yet.. put a better driver in there and it goes faster.... does that mean how much power you make is relavant to who is driving? Weight transfer/body flex/suspension travel/etc. has nothing to do with how much power you make...

I'm sorry, but imo, this is just a marketing scam to lure gullible people in. A company that does that, will not get my business

You really need to do some research. People in the know have known about this for a long time. I put some Kenny Brown Sub fram connectors on my
97Z28. I picked up over 2/10's in the qtr just from that. It improves the ability of the car to put the usable HP to the ground.

[flyby]

I think the op's wording is excellent. It has caused many, including myself to think about the possability of increasing the overall performance of my 2ss. I have ordered the xa drag package but still waiting for the coil overs. This is the first mod being done. At the same time my car is going to get a little power increase. I'm sure most of those who actually drive their car hard have recognized the limitations of the stock suspension. My hope is to cut 1 to 2 seconds off my 1/4 time to start. The engine mods which should be good for about 50-75 rwhp are costing 6500. Compare that to the 3500 the suspension package costs and you can see that the suspension, dollar for dollar, is greater overall performance increase for each dollar spent. I get what the op not only was trying to communicate, but I also appreciate his making me re-think my overall upgrades.