Hot Cam!

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by logan1080

So with those cams and a change of valve springs. Is 500 HP possible in a car that will be a street cruiser?

Wheel hp or crank. 500 at the wheels is a lot for an H/C car. 500 bhp can be had with cam + boltons + good tune. The LS3/L92 style heads flow pretty damned well.

Cam only.....well cam only is a stupid way to mod your car. And you certainly won't hit 440-450 whp with only a cam.


And for your other question, Texas Speed sells a Cam/Valve Spring/ Pushrod Kit, for any of their cams, for $589. They come with Comp 918 springs, which some people are afraid of because there was a bad batch made which kept breaking. However, I'm pretty sure the new 918s are good now, seeing as Comp couldn't give them away for a while after that fiasco. They're rated to .625 lift to 7500rpm. I wouldn't test that upper limit though. With a lower lift, lower redline setup, they should be fine.

For $699, Texas Speed has an upgraded Cam Package with PRC Springs and your choice of pushrod lengths, but for that package I'd go with a bigger cam.

Originally Posted by 1_2Many

My question is...will you be able to install a cam in a new Camaro without pulling engine?

And if so, is pulling the radiator, removing front end, etc any easier?

No idea. Ask someone who's crawled around on one.

[logan1080]

So when you say bolt ons what do you mean specifically. My car will have the air intake and headers with catback exhaust. If your talking switching cylinder heads that to much cash for me at the time. I think I'm going to stick with hot cam and a good tune for now because I won't have to change valve springs like you said and that's within budget. But in the future I plan on upping horsepower to 550 bhp ish on motor only.

[radz28]

Please control the profanity.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

I'd like to get this misconception out of the way as well.

$500 dollars gets you the cam ONLY. You will spend another $400 to $500 dollars getting the car tuned to run right by a reputable tuner. Either that, or you'll spend a couple hundred dollars for HP Tuners+credits, EFILive, or LS1Edit and their respective cables and another couple hundred on a wideband, if you have balls and/or skill to tune an EFI car yourself. This cam, and all cams, on factory tables, will idle and run like ass. A cam is not a bolt and go mod.

You need a laptop or Palm in order to capture this info' and reflash the car too. You'll spend more on buying these programs and hardware to run these programs than a custom tune. BUT, to know what you're doing, tuning yourself with your own software/hardware would be cool too for future changes/upgrades IMHO, you bring up good points on these extra costs

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Wheel hp or crank. 500 at the wheels is a lot for an H/C car. 500 bhp can be had with cam + boltons + good tune. The LS3/L92 style heads flow pretty damned well.

Cam only.....well cam only is a stupid way to mod your car. And you certainly won't hit 440-450 whp with only a cam.

You'd need a cam like a TREX or something even bigger and then worry about piston to valve clearance, and like you said, breaking springs and such. I think I remember reading when there were some Patriot dual-springs that were breaking when guys were running up to 7000 RPMs before the engine was up to operating temperature too. I think those springs were good to .650 lift or something. I believe they were pretty popular on MS3 and MS4 cams. You'd need at least a FAST or equivalent intake to make 450 RWHP with a cam; like you said, cam only ain't gonna' get you there without pushrods, springs, TB, balancer, intake, LTs, exhaust, and great tune. JM.02

And for your other question, Texas Speed sells a Cam/Valve Spring/ Pushrod Kit, for any of their cams, for $589. They come with Comp 918 springs, which some people are afraid of because there was a bad batch made which kept breaking. However, I'm pretty sure the new 918s are good now, seeing as Comp couldn't give them away for a while after that fiasco. They're rated to .625 lift to 7500rpm. I wouldn't test that upper limit though. With a lower lift, lower redline setup, they should be fine.

Maybe these were the springs I was thinking when I read this post

For $699, Texas Speed has an upgraded Cam Package with PRC Springs and your choice of pushrod lengths, but for that package I'd go with a bigger cam.

No idea. Ask someone who's crawled around on one.

Maybe you've said this already, but a ported oil pump, dual-roller chain, and complete valvetrain (maybe minus rockers) are going to make probably be the minimum to make the engine safe enough to operate at high RPMs, unless it's an LS7. It's my understanding PatrickG on LS1tech is the one to talk to about custom grinds. I'm not promoting him, but I believe I remember reading about him working with Tony Mamo (from AFR) on heads and achieving great numbers with a forged 347 that put down 500+ RWHP. It wasn't radical enough not to drive on the street which is was really made it stand out. I'm by no means putting down cams from GM or anything, but just don't limit yourself thinking GM will warranty your car if you use one of their cams.

JMVHO.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by logan1080

So when you say bolt ons what do you mean specifically. My car will have the air intake and headers with catback exhaust. If your talking switching cylinder heads that to much cash for me at the time. I think I'm going to stick with hot cam and a good tune for now because I won't have to change valve springs like you said and that's within budget. But in the future I plan on upping horsepower to 550 bhp ish on motor only.

Intake manifold, throttle body, headers......stuff like that.

Honestly, I don't know why you're going to spend the thousand dollars twice to do two different cam+tunes?

Hot Cam - 5xx dollars.
Texas Speed Cam + Hardened Pushrods + Comp 918 Springs - 589 dollars.

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=174&catid=49

Why do it twice for the same amount of money? The difference is a tank of gas three months ago.

[logan1080]

Yeah for the parts. The labour will be quite pricy to open the engine up.

[logan1080]

But it does make some sense. Which cam should I go with for that package. I am not a genious when it comes to camshafts.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by logan1080

But it does make some sense. Which cam should I go with for that package. I am not a genious when it comes to camshafts.

Headers and any midsized cam will put you right about where you want to be. I'd say one of the 224 cams would suffice, but your best bet is to call Texas Speed, tell them your power and idle goals, and let them guide you. They offer somewhere around 200 different cam grinds, and you can always get a custom grind if none of their cam profiles fits your bill perfectly.

Remember, 500 bhp is somewhere around 430-440 whp, which certainly isn't hard to do on the LS3 on stock heads. The new L92/LS3 rectangular port heads flow really well.

[logan1080]

Those l92/ls3 heads are stock on the camaro?

[Robin Lawrence]

Ah the old cams discussion.... There are many cam resellers out there with some decent profiles. There are only a handful that actually design lobes and have the ability to make cams.

I have a couple of crate LS3 engines as well as an LS2 with LS3 heads. I also have a converted L92 engine going on the dyno this weekend.

If I wanted to make ultimate power I certainly would throw a lot of considerations to the wind. My goal is to sort out several grinds. I am not looking at the peak numbers but a cam that is barely noticable and has a wide band of torque. Torque is what moves these cars.

I had a carb'd LS3 on the dyno last weekend. I installed a 222/228 113 Lobe seperation Lunati cam. The engine idled very nice and had good torque for a single plane manifold and the large ports of the LS3.
I didn't change the valve springs or pushrods. The power peaked at 6400 RPM becasue of the intake. THe torque peaked at 5000 at 484 foot pounds. The power was 515. I will have a video and pictures on my site a little later.
Remember this is a engine dyno. Numbers at at the crank.

I will run the L92 and the LS2 this weekend. Both have Lunati cams as well. THe LS2 has a 212/218 cam and the L92 has a 232/238. We plan on running the L92 with an LS3/L76 intake as well as the GMPP Carb manifold.
The LS2 with LS3 heads will get the LS3/L76 intake.

And yes I have the GMPP hot cam as well as the ASA cam and the Stage II cam.
Ahh so many combinations and so little dyno time.....

Robin

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by Robin Lawrence

Ah the old cams discussion.... There are many cam resellers out there with some decent profiles. There are only a handful that actually design lobes and have the ability to make cams.

I have a couple of crate LS3 engines as well as an LS2 with LS3 heads. I also have a converted L92 engine going on the dyno this weekend.

If I wanted to make ultimate power I certainly would throw a lot of considerations to the wind. My goal is to sort out several grinds. I am not looking at the peak numbers but a cam that is barely noticable and has a wide band of torque. Torque is what moves these cars.

I had a carb'd LS3 on the dyno last weekend. I installed a 222/228 113 Lobe seperation Lunati cam. The engine idled very nice and had good torque for a single plane manifold and the large ports of the LS3.
I didn't change the valve springs or pushrods. The power peaked at 6400 RPM becasue of the intake. THe torque peaked at 5000 at 484 foot pounds. The power was 515. I will have a video and pictures on my site a little later.
Remember this is a engine dyno. Numbers at at the crank.

I will run the L92 and the LS2 this weekend. Both have Lunati cams as well. THe LS2 has a 212/218 cam and the L92 has a 232/238. We plan on running the L92 with an LS3/L76 intake as well as the GMPP Carb manifold.
The LS2 with LS3 heads will get the LS3/L76 intake.

And yes I have the GMPP hot cam as well as the ASA cam and the Stage II cam.
Ahh so many combinations and so little dyno time.....

Robin

Robin, question. Engine dynos.....are they static/inertia load like a DynoJets or are they dynamic/inertia+friction load like you get with a Mustang or Dynapack Dyno?

Also, what was the lift on that 222/228 Lunati Cam. I'm curious as to what you feel the stock springs are safe to. I know the stock LS3 cam is 551 on the intake side.

[logan1080]

Well that's awesome that your dyno testing. All of that. Definitely let us know which cam works best on a stock ls3 with maybey a valve spring and rod swap.

[logan1080]

That ls3 you dynod with the carb, that was identical to a camaros ls3 minus the intake and carb? If so, your saying with that cam and a good tune we can get 500+ flywheel hp? How do you think reliability will hold up through time? Should we just swap springs and rods anyway when we install that cam if we choose it? Also can you post the dyno sheet for that?

[Robin Lawrence]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Robin, question. Engine dynos.....are they static/inertia load like a DynoJets or are they dynamic/inertia+friction load like you get with a Mustang or Dynapack Dyno?

Also, what was the lift on that 222/228 Lunati Cam. I'm curious as to what you feel the stock springs are safe to. I know the stock LS3 cam is 551 on the intake side.

The lift is .567 on the intake and the exhaust with the stock 1.7 rocekr arm.

I have spent a ton of time on the Stuske engine dyno as well as the Dynojet. We use the Stuska for testing parts then the Dynojet for the accerleration in the car.

The Stuska (engine dyno) is a water brake. You load the water in the water brake as resistance on the engine.
As you know the Dynojet is a inertia dyno. We have tried things on the Stuska that didn't show anything. Then in the car on the dynojet it showed more power. The Dynojet uses a calcuation to get a number. That number depends on the rate that you accelerate the 48" drum. I beleive their strain gauge factors how much force is used also. Dyno's are tuning tools. The information has to be taken for the situation. We don't race dyno's LOL.





Robin

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by BowtieGuy

Better in what way? I would be willing to bet that the GMPP cam is by far the best if you want to maintain stock drivability and sacrifice almost nothing.

for the most part, hot cams and GMPP cams are made to give that extra little bit of power and not void the warranty or fail emissions. while there is always a bigger cam out there, not everyone wants a huge Donkey Di*k cam in their DD, plus cam selection will be a lot harder for those with the automatic, as you will need something that will give a gain in power, but still allow the AFM to function properly.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

B. Cam installs are not a "simple mod."

cam installs are a simple mod.... after you've done about 20 of them....

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Oh, and who the hell jacks up an install and then gets the car tuned and then complains that it lopes?

Enjoy your 10 year old cam grind. If lope and idle were the deciding factor in my cam purchase, I could have a cam that lopes and idles like that, after tune, making 420 at the wheels.

but keep in mind, just like the f-body's of old, a lot of the buyers who arent true power hungry enthusiasts want that extra lope in their cam to sound badass (to them).

MOST people look to Duration and LSA for their cam choice. not having a specific plan of attack, just wanting something better than stock that sounds mean.

Originally Posted by logan1080

So what cam out there do you guys think Is a better choice than a hot cam for street driveability after a tune? And why is it a better choice?

custom cam. because its custom ground for your specific wants and needs

Originally Posted by 1_2Many

My question is...will you be able to install a cam in a new Camaro without pulling engine?

And if so, is pulling the radiator, removing front end, etc any easier?

looking at things, the radiator and condenser will be a must. the front fascia.... might have to be pulled as well to accommodate the removal/install.