Camaro SS vs 6.4 HEMI - Page 11 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

*DGthe3* · 07-08-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

Why? a 4 liter BMW makes 412, a 5 liter 500, the Benz 6.3 V8 makes as much as 568. It's called technology. I would easily expect GM to be able to make 500 HP motor with it's next gen LS tech. Remember, this is not a stroked 6.1, it is a new motor based off the new for 09 VVT 5.7 Hemi which means things like variable valve timing, etc. I don't see why something that has been done for years now all of a sudden can't be done?

BMW's 4L costs around $20,000 which is only a bit less than what the 600 hp Viper V10 costs and around what the LS9 is from GM. Dodge isn't going to put a very expensive engine into a sub 50k car.

And GM makes 3 500+ hp engines using current LS technology: LS7, LSA, and LS9.

Georgie · 07-08-2010, 04:19 PM

GM only makes 1 500+ N/A engine

Stew · 07-08-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgie

GM only makes 1 500+ N/A engine

And it is 7 liters

My point was with their new tech I can see an NA 6.x liter motor no problem.

8cd03gro · 07-08-2010, 04:48 PM

I agree. Dodge is going to be hard pressed to pull 5xxhp out of a 6.4l OHV.

xs29j8 · 07-08-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assasinator

480hp maybe....505hp 6.4 liters and meet emissions,etc. that is dream world. you guys are expecting too much. 480 out of 6.4 liters is pushing it.

if nothing changed besides added cubes you are talking 445hp. the extra 60hp has to come from somewhere. prostock cams? 275cc intake ports? exxagerations. this is a factory car. the legendary 7 liter chevy has WAY more in it than any hemi.

480 and just live with it. i doubt it will actually make 480 myself.

You may well be right... I have had my hopes set too high before. But, a lot of folks told us that Chrysler would never make a retro styled Challenger (or other musclecar)... but they were wrooong!

So I will keep dreaming, until someone wakes me up... pinning my hopes on VVT and other technology. The 5.7L VVT Hemi supposedly dynos at 390 HP or better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

He said one of the final digits would be a 5. That means it is 5xx, x5x or xx5. I would have to agree with assassinator that those numbers seem a little extreme.

I guess it depends on how you interpret his comment... I thought that he may have meant that the two versions of the 6.4L Hemi (MDS for Automatics, Non-MDS for Six Speeds) would have different HP ratings. For example, 490 for the MDS equipped engines, 505 for the Non-MDS engines... yeah, I know still dreaming!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

Why? a 4 liter BMW makes 412, a 5 liter 500, the Benz 6.3 V8 makes as much as 568. It's called technology. I would easily expect GM to be able to make 500 HP motor with it's next gen LS tech. Remember, this is not a stroked 6.1, it is a new motor based off the new for 09 VVT 5.7 Hemi which means things like variable valve timing, etc. I don't see why something that has been done for years now all of a sudden can't be done?

Yes, the 6.4L Hemi is apparently a lot closer to the 5.7L VVT engine than the 6.1L. It is said to be visually very close to the 5.7L, with a composite intake totally unlike the intake on the 6.1L. Also, the new 3.6L Pentastar V6 engine has VVT, so I am hoping the 6.4L does as well.

1bad65 · 07-08-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

Ah, but Speed density is fine for a stock application.

Tell that to the guys who own the Challengers I've beaten.

Why they haven't gone to MAF is beyond me. Do you Mopar guys know if this new 6.4 Hemi has MAF or speed density?

Georgie · 07-08-2010, 04:55 PM

so will they bump the 5.7 to 6.1 power or what?

1bad65 · 07-08-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I agree. Dodge is going to be hard pressed to pull 5xxhp out of a 6.4l OHV.

Considering the 6.1 is getting 425hp and it comes stock with headers, I'm betting they don't hit 500hp with the 6.4. My guess would be ~455hp.

Stew · 07-08-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Tell that to the guys who own the Challengers I've beaten.

Why they haven't gone to MAF is beyond me. Do you Mopar guys know if this new 6.4 Hemi has MAF or speed density?

I think the problem is more torque management their, nothing to do with the engine. My poor Jeep even has horrible torque management and the electronic throuttle calibration leaves a lot to be desired.

Stew · 07-08-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Considering the 6.1 is getting 425hp and it comes stock with headers, I'm betting they don't hit 500hp with the 6.4. My guess would be ~455hp.

But the 6.4 is not a version of the old 6.1......

8cd03gro · 07-08-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

But the 6.4 is not a version of the old 6.1......

Still, to pull almost 80hp/L out of a pushrod engine is pretty insane. I'd be extremely, extremely impressed.

xs29j8 · 07-08-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1bad65

Why they haven't gone to MAF is beyond me. Do you Mopar guys know if this new 6.4 Hemi has MAF or speed density?

I have not heard anything on that in the rumor mill...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgie

so will they bump the 5.7 to 6.1 power or what?

Nothing on that either, other than the rumor that they were "detuned" to make the 6.1Ls look better. The rumor was that they could produce "in excess of 400 HP", but were limited to 375-380 HP... now the stories of them dynoing at north of 390 HP.

Six months ago there were stories that the 6.1L would become an option in the R/T... but those rumors went away.

The latest rumor have the 5.7Ls being phased out in the next few years and being replaced by a turbo V6 with higher output...

assasinator · 07-08-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

And it is 7 liters

My point was with their new tech I can see an NA 6.x liter motor no problem.

there is NOTHING besides VVT that is new about this hemi. Semi-hemi to be exact. Ford used the same semi hemi technology and combustion chamber in 1969. a fixed lobe seperation cam with phasing is moderately more powerful than non VVT. to the tune of about 8 lb-ft in a 4.6 3v over locked phasing. thats a small percentage. 6.4 VVT will be no better in percentage. 12lb-ft maybe? 15 tops. it is something, but its not Tivct like 4 valves.

so the semi hemi is not high tech or new tech. no offense. 480 would be a good number.

the heads are going to have to flow like gangbusters to make those numbers.

ayceman · 07-09-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stew

THis I hope too. The hopnot kit seems to be working for now. I am hoping the 6.4 leads to a lot of 08-10 SRT8 trade ins and awesome used deals, is that so wrong? hahahaha.

not at all, heck I'd love to have any SRT next to my Camaro, they are awesome cars. I almost bought a Super Bee used last year, but a black Chally would be perfect company for my SS.

07-08-2010, 04:19 PM	#142
Georgie Drives: Camaro... soon Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,217	GM only makes 1 500+ N/A engine __________________ 2011 IOM or CGM 1SS

07-08-2010, 04:55 PM	#147
Georgie Drives: Camaro... soon Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,217	so will they bump the 5.7 to 6.1 power or what? __________________ 2011 IOM or CGM 1SS

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07-08-2010, 04:48 PM	#144
8cd03gro Drives: 2005 STi corn fed Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,997	I agree. Dodge is going to be hard pressed to pull 5xxhp out of a 6.4l OHV.