Beware: If you are trading in your old car?

[ZYAL8R]

[QUOTE=card21doc;211479]

Originally Posted by ZYAL8R

This post is for card21doc.



I read with interest your response above and all the numbers associated with it the cost of doing business. As a person who has the luck (or curse) of purchasing a new vehicle a year (for personal and business) I feel like I know "how to deal" with or w/o a trade, but i have two ?'s for card21doc. I was told two weeks ago by my salesman that I may get a better deal if I finance through them. They agreed to meet the APR that I already had prior to entering the dealership, so we said yes. Then the finance manager tells us to wait at least until we made the first 4 payments to do any kind of refinance, which we are certainly going to do. Q#1 Why would he say to wait?

And secondly, the one thing that I didn't see you address was the infamous "Dealer Holdback". Everyone knows that the holdback amounts to $1000 to 1500 for the dealer at the end of the year, but how does this figure into your explanation of what it costs for the dealer for his overhead and commisions to be able to sustain his business? The numbers and percentages you quoted seem believable, but then I can't get past the fact that this holdback amounts to a large sum beyond what may/may not be made off the trade and the msrp.

Not trying to be disruptive, just curious.

The banks pay the dealership to finance with them. Sometimes dealers have a "no charge-back clause" meaning if the loan is kept for a certain period of time the bank will not reclaim the $$$ given the dealer. There is no harm/no foul if you are not paying more than you would at another bank.
A good example is a local credit union that we use. The interest rate for 60 months is 5.35%. That is also the rate we charge you. You haven't lost a dime, we probably got the loan cheaper than you could have gotten at a bank, and the credit union pays us 2% of the amount financed. It is a win-win-win situation.

As far as hold back is concerned, that is a payment paid to the dealer to help cover the interest of the dealer financing the car on his lot. Sometimes the dealer sells the car right away and makes money on the deal. Other times the car doesn't sell fast enough and the dealer loses on the deal. Hopefully the dealer can make a little on it or at least break even at year end.

Some dealers live on the holdback, but that is precarious at best.

I called finance manager back today and asked him again why we should wait to refinance our loan. His reply: "It's for the lenders, so the lender will have a chance to process your rebates, so wait 90 days." WTF? How in the world does any rebates that I received (supposedly at the dealership by the dealer and by GM) have any effect on my loan from an outside bank? Am I being lied to?:(

[card21doc]

[QUOTE=ZYAL8R;213949]

Originally Posted by card21doc

I called finance manager back today and asked him again why we should wait to refinance our loan. His reply: "It's for the lenders, so the lender will have a chance to process your rebates, so wait 90 days." WTF? How in the world does any rebates that I received (supposedly at the dealership by the dealer and by GM) have any effect on my loan from an outside bank? Am I being lied to?:(

Quite simply, yes. It's ***holes like that that give the car business a bad name.

[NUCAR]

[QUOTE=ZYAL8R;213949]

Originally Posted by card21doc

I called finance manager back today and asked him again why we should wait to refinance our loan. His reply: "It's for the lenders, so the lender will have a chance to process your rebates, so wait 90 days." WTF? How in the world does any rebates that I received (supposedly at the dealership by the dealer and by GM) have any effect on my loan from an outside bank? Am I being lied to?:(

They are trying to avoid a chargeback by the bank. After 90 days it will not matter if the loan is paid off. They are asking you to do them a favor, they could have been more forthcoming on that point.

[USAFJeeper]

Originally Posted by card21doc

BB calls it $8050 average and $10,000 clean. (This is for the Indianapolis area.) This is not taking into account the 2 tops or tires and wheels.

It would be easier to sell with a hardtop and ac.

I think if it looks really sharp (almost like new) you should get some credit for the tires and wheels. I'm guessing that wholesale against msrp on the Camaro you should be able to get anywhere from $9500 to $11,000 for it, depending on how much the dealer values your add ons. I am inclined to say closer to $10,000.

Try listing it on Auto Trader or Craig' List. Put a price on it of $13,900 and see what happens. You might be pleasantly surprised!

Thanks, and it has AC I forgot that detail! Down here there are a lot of hunters and fishers. I my sell it on my own then get a piece of crap car until the Camaros come out!

BTW the Jeep is in my camaro5 garage, it still looks about the same, it is very clean.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/camaro...lahomaJeep.jpg

[Stig]

Im sorry, but this thread is stupid.

You buy a brand new car from one of the WORST depreciation brands and then expect to sell it a few months later and get what you paid for it....or even close?

I would say keep the car for a year or so then try to break even on it.

[USAFJeeper]

Originally Posted by Stig

Im sorry, but this thread is stupid.

You buy a brand new car from one of the WORST depreciation brands and then expect to sell it a few months later and get what you paid for it....or even close?

I would say keep the car for a year or so then try to break even on it.

Actually this thread turned into a very informative one. Thanks for flaming!

[ZYAL8R]

[QUOTE=card21doc;214014]

Originally Posted by ZYAL8R

Quite simply, yes. It's ***holes like that that give the car business a bad name.

10-4 on the ***hole. This guy just didn't seem honest to start with, so I shouldn't be surprised, but it still makes me mad. It makes me want to drive the hour and half trip to He not only lied to me once, but twice when I called him back. But I guess I'll have the ultimate revenge when I refinance next week

And I guess it's a real good thing that I didn't order my Camaro from this dealership.

[ZYAL8R]

Originally Posted by USAFJeeper

Actually this thread turned into a very informative one. Thanks for flaming!

I have learned a multitude of things from this thread, thanks to all who brought wisdom to it.

[Barry626]

Originally Posted by Stig

Im sorry, but this thread is stupid.

You buy a brand new car from one of the WORST depreciation brands and then expect to sell it a few months later and get what you paid for it....or even close?

I would say keep the car for a year or so then try to break even on it.

You are truly smart!
Where in my thread did I ever say I expected anywhere near what I paid?
But losing 56% in 1 year, 2 years or 3 months is not called for for sure!

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Barry626

You are truly smart!
Where in my thread did I ever say I expected anywhere near what I paid?
But losing 56% in 1 year, 2 years or 3 months is not called for for sure!

They're offering you substantially more—between $5k and $10k—than the same model is worth from the year before. :slice: Mazdas simply do not retain their value. You'd be better off blowing up your car for entertainment than trying to trade it for something else. You should have done your research before buying the car so you wouldn't be trading it. I remind you that you are trading in a 2009 Mazda before or early in 2009. If you had done your research, you would have found that Mazdas do not retain their value. Your dealer is actually giving you a good deal. Stop crying and enjoy your new car.

[Silver Streak]

Originally Posted by stovt001

It does cost the dealer quite a bit to prepare a used car for resale. There's inspection, all the little things that need to be fixed, getting routine maintenance up to date, etc. Then there's dealer overhead, salesman's commission, etc. The car's buyer will try to haggle for less than book value. Add it all up and you can see how they can't afford to sell the car for much. You'd probably have better luck selling it yourself. The only problem there is most people are cautious buying such a new car used, thinking there is something wrong with it, even though you're only selling it because another car caught your fancy.

I agree on the selling it yourself part, that is the only to get close to were you need to be, but as far as dealer cost in reselling a brand new used vehicle, gimme a break. 5% sales commission is more than fair, and inspection is a walk around, maintenance is not an issue. Stop feeling so sorry for the dealers, this is part of the problem. Economy is bad and sales are down so everything needs to be changed, even the dealers. The best we can do is not give the dealer that chance to rape you on your used car. Fair is Fair. Sell it yourself and you will find how easy it is to sell less than a dealer and make out thousands better! As far as being financially responsible. The only criteria for that is paying your bills. Wether you change your mind and want a new car or not has nothing to do with this economy.

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

It should be pretty obvious to you by now that you do not have a $34,000 car. What you paid for the car was not necessarily what it was worth. In fact, it sounds like you overpaid for the car when you bought it. Of course, you're not alone in this, as a vast majority of people do the same thing when they buy a new car.

Your best bet for getting anywhere close to what you are looking for out of the car is selling it yourself. You will never get any dealer, of any brand, to allow a trade value anywhere near what you seem to want.

Autotrader or EBAY. Sold an 02 35th Anniversary Camaro SS to a DEALER in North Carolina a few months ago. He called and asked if I would take $500 less than my buy-it-now price and end the auction. Apparently he had someone looking for exactly that car. Sometimes you just fall into a good situation. Explore all your options to sell your Mazda is all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by Barry626

What most people are missing from my original thread is...

I never expected to get anywhere near my original $34,000 bought enough new cars to know this.
I realize u lose a good $6,000 - $10,000 just driving off the lot first day.
Thing is my very first offer was only $15,000 on a car that I have $34,000 into.
They expected to make over $3,000 MSRP on Camaro & $10,000 or close to it on my trade?

I know all about how cars appreciate, etc but surely not 56% in 3 months.
Anyone that thinks this is right or fair is brain dead or better yet Dealers & Salesman that are posting!

I agree, contrary to many on here, that you're getting hosed but only to the tune of a couple grand IMO. I would personally expect around $22k-$23k for the vehicle after doing some quick research. Keep in mind you get the sales tax benefit from trading it in too. In my NY neck of the woods, that's around a $1970 benefit towards the new Camaro.

The "perfect storm" scenario is definitely playing out against you. However, the same storm can be very beneficial depending on your situation. My wife just took her 06 Galant into the dealer on Monday for a check engine light. As a little background, this is the 4th time in the past year the light has came on. 1st time they replaced the left intake manifold, the second, a catalytic converter, the third, BOTH catalytic converters, and this time would have been God knows what. I told her to go in with a chip on her shoulder and tell them she wanted out of this car. She has/had 11 payments left on a 42 month lease with Mitsubishi Motor Credit Corp. To make a long story short, she is now driving (bought, not leased) an 09 Galant, at invoice, with 2k loyalty cash, $0 down, 0% financing for 60 months,and MMCA waived 6 of her 11 remaining payments. For us, the storm worked out pretty well.

Originally Posted by ZYAL8R

Can't believe how true your statement is, we just traded in our vehicle for $7500 and I just saw online a few mins. ago that the dealer has it listed for $10129. That's exactly 25% more than what they gave me for it plus their $129 doc. fee that they threw in the paperwork while we were signing papers.

Ok, so they put it up for $10129 in today's market. So they're probably expecting 9200-9300 IMO. Plus, as stated above, you did get the tax savings vs selling it outright. That's most likely a $650 savings in your column. So, you got 7500+650 really, or 8150. Ok, the dealer is going to make 1000-1500 when all is said and done selling your vehicle. Big deal. And that's less the salesman's commission, prep costs, and inventory cost of holding the vehicle. Really, it's pretty close to a fair deal IMO.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by TomServo

Go visit the Corvette Forum and read all the horror posts re this issue. Corvette's that sold new for $55K a year ago can't fetch $40K now. BTW there are still 160 BRAND NEW 07 and over 2100 08's Corvette's sitting on dealer lot's right now. Camaro's and Corvette's aren't vehicles folks NEED in a recession.

BTW, here's CF member that gather's data from GMBUYPOWER to track the number of new Corvette's still sitting on dealer lots. To see 160 Brand New 07's out there is an eye opener and should ground each of us, if GM can't sell Corvette's I fear the Camaro may face a similar fate.
http://www.jeffhardy.com/lookupvette.php

Or check out this CF dealer - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-d...corvettes.html
$2000 below GMS and 75 to choose from

Good luck but be prepared to take a beating if you have a trade.

The Camaro will only face a similar fate if the markups are $4,000 on each Camaro sitting on the lot. This will send customers right into a Ford dealership, "hello mustang"..

[trm0002]

Originally Posted by Supermans

The Camaro will only face a similar fate if the markups are $4,000 on each Camaro sitting on the lot. This will send customers right into a Ford dealership, "hello mustang"..

The Camaro will be far from the "limited" Corvette production. However, I'm not going to fool myself and think the production launch on Feb 16th will be anywhere near full capacity. IMO, that won't be achieved until May at the earliest. Dealers will most likely be able to hold MSRP through the first allocation run ending September. Those that try the "MSRP +" game will be sorely disappointed in this economic environment though. Anyone paying over MSRP on a 80-100k first year production run ought to have their head examined. Truthfully, I have NEVER paid anywhere near MSRP for a vehicle. I'm willing to do it for a couple reasons:

1) I had to give my GTO back on a Smartbuy Dec 17th
2) The 02 Impala I bought for the interim and winters doesn't quite wet my thirst..
3) Yes, I want to be the first kid on the block this time.
4) I've gotten such good deals on the vehicles I purchased so many times, I don't mind the dealer "winning" this round...