The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[mrray13]

Originally Posted by garagelogic

As it has been duly noted, SVT never went away, therefore, cannot "come back". All of Ford's performance vehicles are engineered by SVT, including the current GT500.

I think Ford got word of your GT500 and had to have it, lol.

[ViperTomcat]

All evidence points to this being a BOSS test mule, not a TT Mustang. The ONLY thing that some people point to of this being a twin turbo Mustang is the blue TT tag on the windshield.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Are you suggesting then that Ford only intends to produce a turbo Mustang as a California Special? Since the regular GT is more common, why wouldn't Ford use an original GT for testing?

Actually, using a CS/GT makes a lot of sense to me, mainly because it already has the aggressive chin splitter. It would (normally, if somebody hadn't been peaking in the cabin to see the tach) be passed off as just a normal CS, as opposed to a GT with modifications, which would be an instant giveaway on a car with manufacturer plates.
- X

[Sax1031]

Would love to see the GT500 go TT.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

All evidence points to this being a BOSS test mule, not a TT Mustang. The ONLY thing that some people point to of this being a twin turbo Mustang is the blue TT tag on the windshield.

I wish the shot of that test mule's interior was better. I would like to see what gauge that is on the a pillar.

I do agree everything points to it being a Boss test mule. But that might be by design.

[assasinator]

i stick with SVO. may be a v6, but i hope its a 4cyl. a 400hp 2300 dohc turbo would be sweet.

[ckaram]

Man, I'd love me a turbo, 6-speed SVO! I was hot for the 80's version of that car!

Something about 6 cylinder muscle.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by ckaram

Man, I'd love me a turbo, 6-speed SVO! I was hot for the 80's version of that car!

Something about 6 cylinder muscle.

SVO was a 4 cylinder car.

[syr74]

The TT sticker is the first thing I have seen that is compelling in any way. Throw in the fact that one of the Ford insiders has jokingly referred to this as the revival of NASA's Saturn program, all of the GT500 sized bits and pieces (wheels/tires) and the fact that right about now is when we should start seeing the next GT500 mule and this is beginning to make me wonder.

Of course right now all of this is speculation. But, if Ford is building a twin turbo 5.0L with a ~8k rpm redline you would be looking at power well beyond the 600hp mark at a minimum.

[ViperTomcat]

IF..this is a TwinTurbo 5.0..then expect scary numbers. I forget where, so dont ask me for the source, but a Ford engineer commented that Ford had tested a 5.0 with twin snails and it produced 680 HP in an unoptimized condition but with beefed internals.

I wouldnt be shocked to see a 700 HP Mustang before too long.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

IF..this is a TwinTurbo 5.0..then expect scary numbers. I forget where, so dont ask me for the source, but a Ford engineer commented that Ford had tested a 5.0 with twin snails and it produced 680 HP in an unoptimized condition but with beefed internals.

I wouldnt be shocked to see a 700 HP Mustang before too long.

A lot of big if's here. If that redline really is a tick over 8k rpm and if this is a twin turbo 5.0L that would most likely indicate a sequential turbo setup that would probably be akin to something of an Ecoboost hybrid. To wit, take a typical Ecoboost twin turbo layout (notice I said layout and not engine, since such an engine would certainly share almost no real hardware with an EB engine) of two small turbos, replace one of those small turbochargers with a larger one, tweak the other turbo a tad more for performance than economy, and there you have it....no perceptable turbo lag and insane peak power numbers. Think along the lines of the AMG twin turbo 12's but with bookend turbo sizing and a fatter powerband.

Again, all speculation. But, assuming Priddy is right about where that redline on the tach is we still have a situation where all of the pieces would fit. And if Ford is going to do a twin turbo 5.0L, an engine configuration which they have admitted to working on in the past specifically with an eye toward a GT500 application, it would most likely reflect a bit of the EB ethos and a sequential setup would both do that and explain the unusually high redline.

The only outlier here IMO is that I cannot imagine them building a car like this in a rwd configuration, and an awd Mustang would be really radical.....awesome, but radical. Even more that would really raise the price on the GT500, arguably taking it into Z06 territory and possibly even beyonf. Of course, there has also been speculation that Ford is not seriously considering stand alone supercars for the future focusing instead on hyper performance version of existing platforms. Yet again, this would fit right into that ethos if those rumors are accurate.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by syr74

A lot of big if's here. If that redline really is a tick over 8k rpm and if this is a twin turbo 5.0L that would most likely indicate a sequential turbo setup that would probably be akin to something of an Ecoboost hybrid. To wit, take a typical Ecoboost twin turbo layout (notice I said layout and not engine, since such an engine would certainly share almost no real hardware with an EB engine) of two small turbos, replace one of those small turbochargers with a larger one, tweak the other turbo a tad more for performance than economy, and there you have it....no perceptable turbo lag and insane peak power numbers. Think along the lines of the AMG twin turbo 12's but with bookend turbo sizing and a fatter powerband.

Again, all speculation. But, assuming Priddy is right about where that redline on the tach is we still have a situation where all of the pieces would fit. And if Ford is going to do a twin turbo 5.0L, an engine configuration which they have admitted to working on in the past specifically with an eye toward a GT500 application, it would most likely reflect a bit of the EB ethos and a sequential setup would both do that and explain the unusually high redline.

The only outlier here IMO is that I cannot imagine them building a car like this in a rwd configuration, and an awd Mustang would be really radical.....awesome, but radical. Even more that would really raise the price on the GT500, arguably taking it into Z06 territory and possibly even beyonf. Of course, there has also been speculation that Ford is not seriously considering stand alone supercars for the future focusing instead on hyper performance version of existing platforms. Yet again, this would fit right into that ethos if those rumors are accurate.

Sequential? How does one design a sequential turbo system for a v-layout? I was under the impression that the v6 ecoboost was of a parallel design. Is there a y-pipe pre-turbo connecting the collectors of each header? Seems very odd, complex, and unnecessary. I have never heard of a sequential system on a v engine. There is simply no need for a sequential setup with a 5.0. A parallel system with proper turbo sizing could deliver boost below 3k rpm and still allow for enormous top-end.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Sequential? How does one design a sequential turbo system for a v-layout?

The same way Porsche used it on the Boxer engined 959 and even some Poerstroke diesels used it. Nothing about a V-engine or any engine with two banks of cylinders inherently prevents the use of sequential turbochargers, particularly since car companies have built them.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro;

I was under the impression that the v6 ecoboost was of a parallel design. Is there a y-pipe pre-turbo connecting the collectors of each header?

I never said the Ecoboost concept was sequential, I said a performance based, sequential turbo engine could build on the basic Ecoboost concept.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro;

I have never heard of a sequential system on a v engine.

Note my first comment.

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

There is simply no need for a sequential setup with a 5.0. A parallel system with proper turbo sizing could deliver boost below 3k rpm and still allow for enormous top-end.

Yep, you could....but more than likely you are going to kill your drivability unless you seriously compromise the power band. If you want to think about why a manufacturer might do something you have to stop thinking like you are at the dragstrip and start thinking like a manufacturer. (most people can't) One of the major complaints about Mercedes AMG V-12 engines is that the power is all but unusable due to a very narrow and hugely powerful powerband.

The GT500 has traction issues now, up the power to ZR1/AMG levels or beyond without thinking about how to measure that delivery and they certainly aren't going to get better. At that point you either live with the problem, which arguably defeats upping the power in the first place, or you solve it. To solve it you can add awd and/or find a way to balance the power output in such a way that it can actually be used without bolting on slicks.

Sequential turbocharging could help because, while it would more than likely reduce low end torque, it would also spread the power out across the power band giving you great torque everywhere and phenomenal and usable peak power..........potentially solving the problems cars like the AMG V-12's suffer from without neutering the power delivery.

[truth411]

If I was Ford, I would not consider Turbo charging the 5.0, I would place a whipple supercharger on it. I bet that would be much easier on their warrent cost, since IMO Supercharger are more reliable, durable and have less heat issues than turbos. It would still make well over 600hp, BUT the Gt-500 has traction issues now, adding 100 more hp is not going to make you go much faster if you cant put the power down to the pavement.