Winter Blend Fuel

[SILVERHAWK]

I think newer vehicles aren't really effected by the ethanol blended fuel. On my '00 Silverado I only noticed a 1-2 mpg loss when they started using the 10% ethanol blend. With the winter blend I lose about another 1-2 mpg, but I've never felt a difference in the way it runs.

[greenrail]

We have 10% blended fuel here in the Chicago area year round. At least that is what is posted on our Gas Pumps here.

[pennor]

Originally Posted by TommyTSquared

We have ethanol blended gas year round here :(

X2

We do too, by State law.

[v6sonoma]

Originally Posted by SILVERHAWK

I think newer vehicles aren't really effected by the ethanol blended fuel. On my '00 Silverado I only noticed a 1-2 mpg loss when they started using the 10% ethanol blend. With the winter blend I lose about another 1-2 mpg, but I've never felt a difference in the way it runs.

Newer cars are fine, but my 2005 motorcycle needs it's carbs cleaned almost every year due to that crap E10 and that costs me $300 a whack. Even with using stabilizer. Now they approved E15. If they force that crap on us I'll just sell the damn thing. Also it destroyed my Weed whacker. I tried to get that going and the fuel line in the tank literally crumbled in my hand. Soooooooo pissed! :(

[SILVERHAWK]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

Newer cars are fine, but my 2005 motorcycle needs it's carbs cleaned almost every year due to that crap E10 and that costs me $300 a whack. Even with using stabilizer. Now they approved E15. If they force that crap on us I'll just sell the damn thing. Also it destroyed my Weed whacker. I tried to get that going and the fuel line in the tank literally crumbled in my hand. Soooooooo pissed! :(

Yeah I heard that 15% crap is coming out soon. Apparently, its supposed to really screw people up who own boats the engines won't be able to deal with it.

[cab2g]

which do you think contributes more to loss in mileage? winter blend or letting your car idle for a few minutes to warm up when it's freezing cold outside? I always noticed my mileage drop during the winter, but I always attributed it to the fact that I let my truck warm up when it was below 40 degrees.

[pennor]

Originally Posted by cab2g

which do you think contributes more to loss in mileage? winter blend or letting your car idle for a few minutes to warm up when it's freezing cold outside? I always noticed my mileage drop during the winter, but I always attributed it to the fact that I let my truck warm up when it was below 40 degrees.

I'll chime in on this. . .

Since we have 10% Ethanol here where I live year round it's not a seasonal thing. Further, I have only had my Camaro for 7 weeks now so I don't have much experience with the Camaro mileage. BUT, I have a 2004 Colorado which has always gotten worse mileage in the winter as did my Jeep before it. I do a lot of town driving and short trips. I don't let the vehicle idle for 10 minutes to warm it up. I drive it right away, summer and winter. Still, the mileage is worse in the winter. Here's what I suspect: I think that during colder weather the vehicle runs rich for longer because it takes longer to warm it up, especially the O2 sesnsors. When the car is cold the computer runs it in a different mode than when everything is warm. The O2 sensors don't function until they get up to temperature. I thus suspect that the car runs "choked" as we would have said in the days of carburators for a longer period of time and that dumps a lot more fuel into the system. When the air is warm in the summer everything warms up faster and the computer gets into its normal mode quicker, thus saving fuel. Anyway, this what I have suspected is going on, since the cold weather only seems to affect the computer controled fuel injected cars that I have and not the carburated ones running the same fuel in the same climatic conditions.

[SILVERHAWK]

Originally Posted by cab2g

which do you think contributes more to loss in mileage? winter blend or letting your car idle for a few minutes to warm up when it's freezing cold outside? I always noticed my mileage drop during the winter, but I always attributed it to the fact that I let my truck warm up when it was below 40 degrees.

I know its probably not the best thing for the motor but I never let mine warm up. First of all I love my sleep, so normally I don't have extra time in the morning. And second I have written too many stolen vehicle reports for the idiots that leave veh running unattended and some crackhead wanders by and steals it.
Now I will have to let it run sometimes when I have to clear ice or snow off of the truck but once I have to start doing that and running the 4 wheel drive I can care less about gas mileage as long as I can make it into work because I have no other choice I have to make it in no matter what.

[SILVERHAWK]

Originally Posted by pennor

I'll chime in on this. . .

Since we have 10% Ethanol here where I live year round it's not a seasonal thing. Further, I have only had my Camaro for 7 weeks now so I don't have much experience with the Camaro mileage. BUT, I have a 2004 Colorado which has always gotten worse mileage in the winter as did my Jeep before it. I do a lot of town driving and short trips. I don't let the vehicle idle for 10 minutes to warm it up. I drive it right away, summer and winter. Still, the mileage is worse in the winter. Here's what I suspect: I think that during colder weather the vehicle runs rich for longer because it takes longer to warm it up, especially the O2 sesnsors. When the car is cold the computer runs it in a different mode than when everything is warm. The O2 sensors don't function until they get up to temperature. I thus suspect that the car runs "choked" as we would have said in the days of carburators for a longer period of time and that dumps a lot more fuel into the system. When the air is warm in the summer everything warms up faster and the computer gets into its normal mode quicker, thus saving fuel. Anyway, this what I have suspected is going on, since the cold weather only seems to affect the computer controled fuel injected cars that I have and not the carburated ones running the same fuel in the same climatic conditions.

I can see your point, but it hasn't gotten that cold in my area yet and its killing the mileage already. I did remember one thing in my silverado manual. It will run with different gearing either holds it in third gear uner a certain mph or higher rpms in every gear before it shifts something like that. when you first start the truck up in the freezing cold its supposed to help it warm up to optimal temp quicker but then it returns to normal once the truck is warmed up. I'm sure that effects the mileage as well to some degree.

[2010 SS RS]

E10....E15....try converting to E85....bahahahaha. But do we really drive them for the milage? I went for a complete conversion and the 42 RWHP gain and 33 lbs of torque. Pretty cheap mod for real HP gains. And the benefit of cooler burn and more fuel to each charge is gynormous. Clearly the E10 causes loss of milage cause it takes more fuel for each charge but it really should not be as much as you might think. Additional fuel needed for Ethanol is about 30% so if blend is 10% mix then actual amount of fuel would only be 3%. So milage difference must be attributed to warm ups...and winter driving conditions...slower traffic...Cold engine and thicker oil....computer compensation due to temps etc.
Call around and you should still be able to find some service station that sells gas only premium. But I bet the price is higher and the E10 will still be cheaper even with your reduced gas milage.

[gblaue]

Originally Posted by 2010 Bumblebee

I think you are right about the vaporization! Ethanol on the other hand I believe is more powerful than gasoline. It's alcohol..

Actually, Ethanol has less BTUs per unit than gasoline. Summer blend of gasoline has approximately 114,500 BTUs/gallon compare to 111,836 BTUs per gallon for gasoline with 10% ethanol.

The reason that people believe that "winter fuels" get worse gas mileage is not so much an issue anymore. Most areas are running gasoline/ethanol blends year round. The real reason is that car simply needs to run richer in cold weather. Cold air is denser and contains more oxygen, thus runs leaner. That means more fuel is needed, which in turn means a drop in fuel mileage. In addition, cars run closed loop longer during the warm up period, which means even more fuel.

[conradt]

Originally Posted by POWERFREAK

thank you tree-huggers...because of you gas is more expensive and we get worse MPG in the winter.

The difference between conventional summer- and winter-blend gasoline has to do with the Reid Vapor Pressure of the fuel. RVP relates to the volatility of a gasoline. The more volatile a gasoline, the more likely it will evaporate as the temperatures rises; evaporated gasoline contributes to unhealthy ozone and smog levels. Summer gasoline has a low RVP and is less likely to evaporate when compared to the high RVP winter grade. The Environmental Protection Agency says conventional summer-blend gasoline contains 1.7 percent more energy than winter-blend gas, which contributes to the summer blend’s slightly better gas mileage.

This is true.

I work at gasoline distribution terminal and I can tell you that there is winter gas and summer gas. We are only talking about the base product that comes from the refinory. Every spring we have to make sure we rotate our inventory and ship all of the high RVP gas before May 1 or face very stiff fines from the EPA. One year we had to sit on 2 million gallons of gas for the whole summer. You will get worse milage in the winter.

Ethanol is another story. It is always the same. We add 10% to every load wheather it is conventional gas or reformulated.

[SILVERHAWK]

Originally Posted by gblaue

Actually, Ethanol has less BTUs per unit than gasoline. Summer blend of gasoline has approximately 114,500 BTUs/gallon compare to 111,836 BTUs per gallon for gasoline with 10% ethanol.

The reason that people believe that "winter fuels" get worse gas mileage is not so much an issue anymore. Most areas are running gasoline/ethanol blends year round. The real reason is that car simply needs to run richer in cold weather. Cold air is denser and contains more oxygen, thus runs leaner. That means more fuel is needed, which in turn means a drop in fuel mileage. In addition, cars run closed loop longer during the warm up period, which means even more fuel.

I hear everyones scientific reasonings and weather related reasons for loss of mileage and yes I guess people are correct Did I really buy it for the great fuel mileage?..... OK you got me I would have went back with the 6 cyl like I traded in.. BUT I am just bringing to light the fact that one minute I'm riding along getting over 17 mpg --- I stop and fill up my gas tank... once I roll back onto the hwy the car struggles to get 15-16 mpg.... EVEN AS I TRY TO BABY IT TO SEE IF I CAN ACTUALLY HIT THE 25 MPG TOP MPG RATING ON THE WINDOW STICKER JUST FOR KICKS... (ya know get it slowly up to speed then let the cruise take it on a flat open piece of hwy with no traffic lights so the AFM kicks in) I'm just sitting there going WTF? somethings not right.
Since then it has settled at around 14.4 mpg when a few days before I was around 17.6 mpg. NO COLD weather since its been just about the same temp (around 55-60) no warm ups... no change in driving habits or anything like that. Within 10 minutes time and one fill up I saw a difference Nothing else mentioned really comes into play except the difference in the oxygenated fuel.