V6 AY6 M6 2nd Gear Problem - Report Your Issue Here

[nak3dsnake]

Originally Posted by mickss

Are these new gear sets the same as are currently in the AY6 or is this something entirely new from the current set?

Ironic isn`t the first word that comes to my mind, if their calling it a "high performance and high torque" then false advertising is what I would call it if it`s those same gears that`s in it now.

It's the current set used on our cars 2010-2011 model years. I believe they've used this gear set a few years before our car too on the Toyota Tacoma. Which have the same problems as we do, tearing up synchros.

[nak3dsnake]

Some more info from GM powertrain:

2009 Aisin AY6 (MV5) 6/5/2009
Type: Rear wheel drive, six-speed manual transmission
Engine range: 2.8L - 3.6L
Maximum engine torque: 370 Nm (273 lb-ft)
Maximum gearbox torque: 370 Nm (273 lb-ft)
Gear ratios: MV5
First: 4.475
Second: 2.577
Third: 1.683
Fourth: 1.194
Fifth: 1.000
Six: 0.752
Reverse: 3.955
Final Drive Ratio: 3.27
Maximum curb vehicle weight: 4026 lbs ( 1826 kg )
Case material: Aluminum
Center distance: 85mm
Fluid type: 75W90
Transmission weight: wet: 57.2 kg (126 lb)
Fluid capacity (approximate): 1.8L (1.9 qt)
Power take off: No
Applications: Chevrolet Camaro

2010 Aisin AY6 (MV5/MV7) Car Transmission
Aisin AY6 six-speed manual transmission
2010 Model Year Summary

New Features / Applications for 2010 model year
• Introduced in the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro mated to the 3.6L V-6 VVT DI ( LLT )

Low maintenance
The MV5/MV7 uses conventional 75W90 gear oil, and no maintenance is required under normal operating conditions. Fluid changes are recommended for severe duty. A hydraulic clutch eliminates adjustments throughout the lifespan of the transmission.

Overview
The Aisin AY6 is a unique transmission design for Aisin. It features an uncommon "tailset" design. Compared to a conventional rear-drive manual transmission, the tailset design utilizes a long input shaft supported by a short output shaft, which is the converse of a traditional two-axis manual transmission design which uses a "headset" design. Because of the torque flow path, the gearsets carry less torque and operate at a higher rpm compared to a conventional manual transmission. Therefore, the transmission can handle more torque than a similar-size headset design manual. The countershaft of the transmission remains a conventional design.

The closely spaced MV7 ratios were specified by GM and are unique to the CTS application. The ratios allow even stepping between gears and are optimized to the power characteristics of the engines. The Camaro uses the MV5 gear set.

The AY6's tailset design reduces the inertia required by the synchronizers to match gearset speeds during an upshift or a downshift. This reduces the demand on the synchronizers, which in turn reduces the amount of effort by the driver to shift gears. The tailset design also reduces the length of the output shaft, which is typically the source of noise in a conventional manual transmission when the powertrain is idling in neutral.

It features a synchronized reverse gear, and a case made of aluminum. All synchronizers use brass material for their friction surfaces, a softer, more common material that is allowed by the reduced demands on the synchronizers.

Clutch actuation is through a concentric release bearing, a common method of ensuring a linear actuation, which translates to a higher-quality pedal feel for the driver.

The shift rail inside the transmission is located near the top of the case, and attaches to the shifter through a small coupling. This design allows all shift efforts to be transmitted to the transmission rather than a portion derailed into the car's body.

The Aisin AY6 is built in Anjo City, Japan.

[turboguy327]

Originally Posted by mickss

I think the problem with the AY6 might be the type of gears used in this transmission, racing and performance transmissions differ from street transmissions by running straight-cut gears. Straight-cut gears are stronger than diagonally cut gears found in most street transmissions because engine torque is spread out over a larger contact (straight-cut) area between the teeth. Diagonally cut gears are used in street trans because they generate less heat and gear whine. This may be the problem combined with questionable synchros that people are seeing with hi RPM torque 1-2 gear grinding.

This is only a guess on my part but I`m very suspicious of the type of gears and synchros used in this transmission.

Every trans used in a production car has diagonally cut gears. I dont think you have ever heard a straight cut box before. The problem with the trans is there isnt enough friction area for the syncros to do their job because the gear faces are too small. Check out google or wiki or something and have a look inside a gearbox and see how they actually work. The trans has failure designed into it. The only fix is to replace the gearset which is not cheap at all. I doubt GM will do that as their OE trans can hold the power of the engine and it will move the car. Its just not user friendly at all. And brass is not a good material to use on sycros as its very soft. You can almost nick it with your fingernail. lol. I cant believe GM did that. Not even a cobalt LS trans used brass syncros. Makes me wonder how crappy the rest of the car is designed if GM approved this one.

[nak3dsnake]

Originally Posted by turboguy327

Every trans used in a production car has diagonally cut gears. I dont think you have ever heard a straight cut box before. The problem with the trans is there isnt enough friction area for the syncros to do their job because the gear faces are too small. Check out google or wiki or something and have a look inside a gearbox and see how they actually work. The trans has failure designed into it. The only fix is to replace the gearset which is not cheap at all. I doubt GM will do that as their OE trans can hold the power of the engine and it will move the car. Its just not user friendly at all. And brass is not a good material to use on sycros as its very soft. You can almost nick it with your fingernail. lol. I cant believe GM did that. Not even a cobalt LS trans used brass syncros. Makes me wonder how crappy the rest of the car is designed if GM approved this one.

Well GM didn't do that, some engineer in Japan though it was a good idea. I think the problem is that they had designed the transmission with the idea that the synchros would take less punishment with the new design. So they used a lighter, softer, cheaper brass sychros because they thought they could get away with it. When in reality the synchros take much more punishment that they though and the brass just cant take it. Shame on GM for thinking that it would work.

[mickss]

Originally Posted by turboguy327

Every trans used in a production car has diagonally cut gears. I dont think you have ever heard a straight cut box before.

I have had and run two M-22 "Rock Crusher" in my day, so I`m pretty familiar with what gear whine sounds like and how they perform.

[turboguy327]

Originally Posted by mickss

I have had and run two M-22 "Rock Crusher" in my day, so I`m pretty familiar with what gear whine sounds like and how they perform.

Ok. Modern transmission. GM isnt going to put straight cut gears in a V6 camaro. Lol. Nobody would buy it. There is no reason to be suspicious of the design of the gears. Its not weak becaause they arent straight cut. Its weak because its a dumb design having to do with the width of the gears and the material the syncros are made from. Its sad when my 1994 supra has over 180k miles on the trans and can hold up to clutchless shifts on the strip holding over 700 hp without a noise at all. And GM cant see when a design wont hold up to a stock v6 engine. Im getting sick of skipping 2nd and hearing its operating as designed. What else is designed horribly weak if they skipped out on testing something as important as a transmission?? Hopefully not the brakes or the ABS or anything like that like all the other GM ABS systems.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by nak3dsnake

Well GM didn't do that, some engineer in Japan though it was a good idea. I think the problem is that they had designed the transmission with the idea that the synchros would take less punishment with the new design. So they used a lighter, softer, cheaper brass sychros because they thought they could get away with it. When in reality the synchros take much more punishment that they though and the brass just cant take it. Shame on GM for thinking that it would work.

shame on g.m for having the tranny built in japan in the first place!
the "tremec" is built here!

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by Mike2010camaro

FYI GM Corporate customer relations:
866-790-5600

If you live in California, Lemon Law info:
http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/

has anyone determined g.m's position on this problem?..do they recognize that there IS one?..WILL they admit to one?..status?..thanks!

[ckaram]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

shame on g.m for having the tranny built in japan in the first place!
the "tremec" is built here!

Really? I thought the Tremec was built in Mexico?

[xpanda305x]

who cares if its built in mexico or usa or in the north pole with santa!

ITS A BETTER TRANNY!

F#!@ you GM for putting this pos tranny on the camaros....

AY6 FTMFL.

[ckaram]

Stronger tranny, maybe. But the SS guys are having the exact same problems....search.

[xpanda305x]

then GM just shitted on us.....

[JerseyMonte]

I used to race my 67 Camaro with a modified
Muncy M22 every other synchronizer tooth
on second through fourth gear were ground off
could speedshift without using the clutch.
Never any problems after about 70 runs and
miles of street driving.
I am afraid of beating the 6060 for fear of doing damage
Main shaft breakage, synchro problems, drive line breakage
etc. I think GM should have designed their own trans
much like Ford did for the new Mustang and stuck with
a solid axle too.

[nak3dsnake]

Originally Posted by JerseyMonte

I used to race my 67 Camaro with a modified
Muncy M22 every other synchronizer tooth
on second through fourth gear were ground off
could speedshift without using the clutch.
Never any problems after about 70 runs and
miles of street driving.
I am afraid of beating the 6060 for fear of doing damage
Main shaft breakage, synchro problems, drive line breakage
etc. I think GM should have designed their own trans
much like Ford did for the new Mustang and stuck with
a solid axle too.

Fords is a co developed tanny with getrag that has its own problems too. Do a google search on 2011 mustang manual trans problems. I'll take independent suspension over a lamppost for an axle any day. The next gen mustang is set to move to an IRS setup.