Camaro VS Mustang Mega Thread

[66olds442]

Originally Posted by Sleestack

Sorry, but by your logic GM would not need to build the Z28, cause you could just 'strap' a blower on a 1SS... It is more about heavy duty brakes, axles, transmission, forged motor (in the GT500 anyway), and suspension. The GT500 has ZERO competition until the Z28 arrives.

Want to throw a GT500 (from a ford dealer) and the Base Corvette coupe in the ring together? They are the same price...

Or how about the Z06 vs the Super Snake. Since somehow a modded camaro isn't allowed to compete against a "Stock" car.

I'd take a Corvette against anything Ford/Shelby has to offer at the same price point.

[stikSS]

Originally Posted by 66olds442

Want to throw a GT500 (from a ford dealer) and the Base Corvette coupe in the ring together? They are the same price...

Or how about the Z06 vs the Super Snake. Since somehow a modded camaro isn't allowed to compete against a "Stock" car.

I'd take a Corvette against anything Ford/Shelby has to offer at the same price point.

Exactly!!!.... The GT500 has Shelby plastered all over it... according to Ford, SVT is internal FORD performance division, Shelby.... which is based in Las Vegas, has its own performance additions, and are a seperate package from the other Mustang packages. You can't add the SC to a Mustang GT, its a SHELBY package... according to Ford.com. Thats why i referenced the FORD SVT Cobra 03 / 04 which came directly from Ford, and has nothing to do with Shelby.... thats the difference.

Here is the best camparison that i can say would be similar........... granted this IS NOT a "STOCK" car.... Berger Chevrolet in Michigan does their own performance mods which are very equivalent to SHELBY'S mods... They have all their cars on the website, with the options included. Now if someone could find a head to head comparo... i think that would prove that similar mods would make a very fair race.

[Mike @ CMS]

Originally Posted by Iwantone2

On the 2011 Rustang graph, is the top-right lettering in red supposed to say "w/tune"?

Good Question, where is the tuned w/ headers 5.0 graph? That's not a fair comparison. Yes the LS3 is going to make more TQ but with a tune the 5.0 could very well turn out more horsepower.

Truth is the 5.0 isn't completely overrated, you have to look at it for what it is. It is still a MOD motor with only 5.0L of displacement. I am personally very impressed with the numbers that are being made from the new 5.0. Yes the reason the Mustangs are a little quicker is because they are lighter but you cant knock FORD for making a lighter, quicker car and say the motor isnt that great. Power to weight is what matters at track not just power.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by stikSS

That isn't the Mustang thats been 13.0, it was another one that we've only seen that one time. The Camaro is running normal times with the mods given. This is the reality of real times for these cars.... ppl believe everything magazines say... The camaro is not gonna be in the 11's without internal engine mods, SC, turbo or nitrous. IMO the mustang isn't either without the same.

Magazines?

Both cars have gone 11's with bolt ons and private owners. 4 of them on our fast list alone.

Every car on the bolt on fast list has went faster than you have at 12.8. Is everyone lying?

Times from track to track can be very different. From driver to driver. And especially considering you are running a couple bolt ons with no tune, stock suspension and street tires, im not sure how you can expect much more.

[Mindz]

Originally Posted by BoomBoomKid

American Racing Header chassis dyno numbers are factual not candy coated like some, ARH is in business of selling their products.

The dyno numbers are quite revealing, the 5.0 numbers are below the LS3 across the board, especially in torque, on the order of 40 ft lbs and 50 ft lbs. Which is expected with such a small displacement engine. The 5.0 engine is “overrated” the only reason the 5.0 Mustang keeps up with the SS LS3 Camaro is because it weighs less. Just imagine how fast the 2011 Mustang would be with the LS3 under the hood.

These numbers are backed up on the ¼ mi and on the street between the two cars.

p.s. why does the forum admistrator delete threads about the truth?

We don't delete the threads. We move them to the correct thread and correct forum. Posting a vs. thread in a regional forum is bad etiquette. Please read the rules or use common sense or you will receive an infraction as you've posted in the wrong forum multiple times. We have a mega-thread for a reason.

[stikSS]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Magazines?

Both cars have gone 11's with bolt ons and private owners. 4 of them on our fast list alone.

Every car on the bolt on fast list has went faster than you have at 12.8. Is everyone lying?

Times from track to track can be very different. From driver to driver. And especially considering you are running a couple bolt ons with no tune, stock suspension and street tires, im not sure how you can expect much more.

Again...... I'm not saying it can't happen... i'm saying that ppl read magazines and take word for word and try to argue a point without seeing first hand that the times posted are very strong averages. Its obvious that with bolt ons and tunes and what not will get you alot faster... but thats not a steady average. The 12.8 i ran was in 90 degree high humidty heat, where you may have the same mods and run a low 12's because you don't have the same weather conditions or track conditions. The comparisons here are stock to stock.... which they don't run low to mid 12's consistantly. We have a large group of 5th Gens that run together at the track.... we all ran the excact same times with similar mods.... and nobody was anywhere close to mid 12's sitting stock.

My car would've been faster if the temp was down, and didn't have 20,000 miles on rear factory tires that wouldn't hook. I again don't think it would've been much faster than a 12.5 if it did hook and it was 70 degrees. Now, i'm just hoping to be in the low 12's with my current mods, which is 469 SAE whp.

[derklug]

16-21...few can afford car and insurance.
21-30...fun time untill.....
31-40...family truckster time.
41- ......kids are gone, back to fun time.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by stikSS

Again...... I'm not saying it can't happen... i'm saying that ppl read magazines and take word for word and try to argue a point without seeing first hand that the times posted are very strong averages. Its obvious that with bolt ons and tunes and what not will get you alot faster... but thats not a steady average. The 12.8 i ran was in 90 degree high humidty heat, where you may have the same mods and run a low 12's because you don't have the same weather conditions or track conditions. The comparisons here are stock to stock.... which they don't run low to mid 12's consistantly. We have a large group of 5th Gens that run together at the track.... we all ran the excact same times with similar mods.... and nobody was anywhere close to mid 12's sitting stock.

My car would've been faster if the temp was down, and didn't have 20,000 miles on rear factory tires that wouldn't hook. I again don't think it would've been much faster than a 12.5 if it did hook and it was 70 degrees. Now, i'm just hoping to be in the low 12's with my current mods, which is 469 SAE whp.

Thats cool I understand all of that.

You just made it sound like it couldn't be done.

Im gonna go to the track this year for the first time. I am just hoping to run some 12's. I realize what to expect etc...

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by stikSS

Uh... need to look at that again.... They're not SC'd

"Or maybe not. SpeedFactory puts its Stage 5 Challenger SRT8 at 700-plus horsepower to the wheels, yet it managed only a paltry 454 horsepower and 429 pound-feet of torque on the dyno. This despite a Vortech blower, water-to-air intercooler, and stainless-steel Corsa exhaust with high-flow catalytic convertors. What gives? A nearly unfathomable error as we'd find out later."



Looks like a vortech centrifugal supercharger to me.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1ABavT6Mi


The point is.... Ford has never had a car without bolting a SC on it that would hang with a Camaro in modern time.... thats going back to the beginning of the 4th Gen Camaro. The only thing that they had goin for em was the SVT Cobra in 03 / 04...which was SC'd,... which i would say is the baddest Mustang they've had in modern time..IMO. SO with that said.... the GT500 has been the only mustang to compare the Camaro with until they finally figured how to build a motor without a SC attached to it. Now.... the GT500 is in its own class, but if someone took the Camaro, add the same componets as the GT500... Like SHELBY adds to it... and you will see that the GT500 has direct competition. Search the forums and internet for comparos prior to the 2011 GT, and all they wanted to do is compare the Camaro SS to the GT500.... because obviously, the 2010 GT had nothing for it... That doesn't say the Camaro was any comp for the GT500, but it was quick to be used in comparos. I know Chevy doesn't have anything rolling straight outta Oshawa to campare evenly with the GT500, but its gonna be awesome to see what happens to these cars over the next few years.... i mean its a race to have the baddest machine, so i'm sure the comparos have not even really began

Shelby didn't add the blower to the 5.4. Like said before, it was svt. The blown 5.4 was designed by svt, originally for the FGT. Second, you are making the ultimate ricer argument that, "if the camaro had a blower too. . . " what if the gt500 had 6.2l of displacement? Well it doesn't and the camaro doesn't have a blower. Again, comparing an aftermarket car to a stock car is dumb. Yes, a blown SS will be competitive with a gt500, but that does not mean the SS competes with the gt500. My car with a bigger turbo would destroy a stock gt500, but that doesn't mean my car is a gt500 competitor in any way, shape or form. As for Ford not being able to make an n/a engine to compete. . . There have been multiple n/a engines that would keep right up with the current ls3 camaro in a straight line in the past from Ford, they simply haven't put it in the mustang. Why? The mustang was still one of the fastest cars for the money (new) with the 3v 4.6 until the camaro came around. There was no reason to put a more expensive, higher performance engine in until the camaro dominated the 3v with the ls3.

[stikSS]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Thats cool I understand all of that.

You just made it sound like it couldn't be done.

Im gonna go to the track this year for the first time. I am just hoping to run some 12's. I realize what to expect etc...

Not at all.... I would love to say i ran 11's or low 12's stock... but the reality of it being average isn't there.

I looked at ur mods, and you should be well in the 12's... and perfect weather, and track you could be pushing the 11's..... Good Luck.

[snakekiller]

The GT500 is an SVT product with the borrowed Shelby name.
the Super Snake is an ad-on that comes from Shelby, just like the GT350 and so on.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by TIMMY22

The BIG 5 reasons why Camaro is better than a Mustang

1 IRS Independent Rear Suspension

2 3.6L V6 producing 304 hp (Direct Injection)

3 LS3 6.2L (376ci) V8 producing 426 hp

4 6-speed manual / 6-speed automatic with manual shift

5 It does not have THIS hideous rear end!



I'm sure there are others but most would agree that's the BIG 5. Oh if anyone thinks its
just another Camaro Fanboy with a bias opinion and how the mustang looks. I can give
you a list of Mustang forums all agreeing how hideous that Rear End is

Alot of Mustang people dont like the new rear end, thats true..but..alot of your points are just waiting to be shot to pieces like..(My comments in bold)

The BIG 5 reasons why Camaro is better than a Mustang

1 IRS Independent Rear Suspension But the SRA Live Axle is more durable for drag racing, and the new Mustang is on a performance level equal to a BMW M3 (the new ones)

2 3.6L V6 producing 304 hp (Direct Injection) Its 312 actually, and the Ford V6, which is 3.7L and produces 305 HP does so without Direct Injection. The same engine with DI would produce quite a bit more than the current 3.6L LLT engine in the Camaro.

3 LS3 6.2L (376ci) V8 producing 426 hp And the Ford engine produces 412(underrated) HP and 390 TQ on over a liter less displacement. Different technology..I know.

4 6-speed manual / 6-speed automatic with manual shift Both of the new Mustangs have 6 speed's, but yes the Mustang automatic doesnt have tapshift.

5 It does not have THIS hideous rear end! You're right, it has THIS rear end.

[66olds442]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

"if the camaro had a blower too. . . " what if the gt500 had 6.2l of displacement? Well it doesn't and the camaro doesn't have a blower. Again, comparing an aftermarket car to a stock car is dumb. Yes, a blown SS will be competitive with a gt500, but that does not mean the SS competes with the gt500.

Ok then lets compare apples to apples. How about we throw the GT500 in the ring with other similarly priced stock cars... say the corvette?

/END THREAD

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by 66olds442

Ok then lets compare apples to apples. How about we throw the GT500 in the ring with other similarly priced stock cars... say the corvette?

/END THREAD

I think a 2011 GT500 is more than a match for any Corvette below the Z06.

In fact..a 2011 GT500 beat the Corvette Grand Sport's time at VIR.

So..you want to match up a 2011 GT500 with a base C6 Corvette? Not quite /ENDTHREAD.