No future for v6

[CamaroFreako]

Originally Posted by King Sun

lol people still falling for camarofreako trolling

[67 GTO]

Originally Posted by King Sun

lol people still falling for camarofreako trolling

Not me but looking forward to the ZL1 vs *insert supercar* threads. ...........

[mjrebel]

Can't, because of one simple undeniable fact...Insurance!!! You guys forget that in some state V8 automatically puts you into sport car insurance. In Nevada, (****Disclaimer****It is not like this anywhere else) it would cost me $405 usd to carry full coverage on a 2010 camaro 1ss. I currently pay $162.50 USD on my 2010 V6 2LT/RS. My car retailed for around 31,000 with options, about the same price as a 1ss with nothing extra. Lets do a little math; before I would have paid off the car I would have spent $14,550 more in insurance by owning a Camaro SS. ((405-162.50)*60). Food for thought next time you go bashing a V6 owner...

[chuckstacamaro]

Lets see base LS $22K + - a few hundred, Base SS $30K + - a few hundred. 5-7K for a turbo or SC set up = same ETs and performance as quick as a stock LS3 V8 (or maybe quicker) minus higher insurance and getting better MPG with gas prices getting higher. Hummmm........ You decide?

[ROD1]

Its cheap and it looks cool. What more can you ask for. Sup fellers. B back soon as Im no longer homeless. Living out of my Camaro right now. Could be worse. Could be living out of a Mustang.

[67 GTO]

Originally Posted by ROD1

Its cheap and it looks cool. What more can you ask for. Sup fellers. B back soon as Im no longer homeless. Living out of my Camaro right now. Could be worse. Could be living out of a Mustang.

Hey Rod, good to see your around. Racing season is starting soon.

[Bowtiepower00]

In a year or two, once the aftermarket comes around and the TT kits are fully sorted out, the LS will be the bang for the buck winner over the SS in the right power ranges. I paid just over 20K for mine, and have seen them advertised for under 20K as of late. That gives the V6 owner a good $8K to spend just to get to the price of a Base SS. That will cover the Turbo kit and tuning. The SS owner is going to have to add a turbo/ maggie/ KB, etc, for pretty much the same money to stay ahead. For another $8K, the LS owner will be able to reinforce the engine internals, and the drivetrain, and be king in the 600-700 HP bracket (i'm talking reliably, not blowing up drivetrain parts every other launch), while retaining better weight distribution and lighter weight with the mid mounts over the sc'd V8 cars. If you factor in the drivetrain upgrades to the SS, there goes another few grand, depending on power level, that the V6 has saved over the V8. In the bolt-on only categories, yes the SS will have the advantage, but the LLT is going to have it's niche once the aftermarket comes around. If you are talking buying and modding used cars, I'm willing to bet the V6's are going to depreciate faster, making them an even better deal for someone looking to mod. I have seen plenty of SS owners that have spent double what I have on my car on theirs, are you telling me that for 20-30K in upgrades a V6 car couldn't be built to run?

That being said, yes, if you are building and buying for out of the box performance, the SS is going to be king, no one is having any delusions about that, the SS is an outstanding car.

The LSx series of engines has been continuously developed and improved for over a decade. It is a great platform with lots of cost effective mods and great power potential. For people looking to build four digit power, yes, it will remain king. But at that level, most V8 guys aren't using any factory engine or drivetrain parts... and have spent more on mods than I did on my entire car.

But to completely dismiss the LLT simply because it is a V6 is just plain ignorant, once this engine begins to reach its potential there are going to be a lot of surprised, and probably even a few angry, V8 owners out there.

I used to be a die-hard V8 or nothing guy too, but driving the LLT opened my eyes. Unless the CAFE regulations get drastically modified, which is unlikely to happen, the V6 is going to be part of the future of Camaro performance, with the exception of the top dog models like ZL1, assuming they remain profitable enough to remain on the market a decade from now.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Bowtiepower00

In a year or two, once the aftermarket comes around and the TT kits are fully sorted out, the LS will be the bang for the buck winner over the SS in the right power ranges. I paid just over 20K for mine, and have seen them advertised for under 20K as of late. That gives the V6 owner a good $8K to spend just to get to the price of a Base SS. That will cover the Turbo kit and tuning. The SS owner is going to have to add a turbo/ maggie/ KB, etc, for pretty much the same money to stay ahead. For another $8K, the LS owner will be able to reinforce the engine internals, and the drivetrain, and be king in the 600-700 HP bracket (i'm talking reliably, not blowing up drivetrain parts every other launch), while retaining better weight distribution and lighter weight with the mid mounts over the sc'd V8 cars. If you factor in the drivetrain upgrades to the SS, there goes another few grand, depending on power level, that the V6 has saved over the V8. In the bolt-on only categories, yes the SS will have the advantage, but the LLT is going to have it's niche once the aftermarket comes around. If you are talking buying and modding used cars, I'm willing to bet the V6's are going to depreciate faster, making them an even better deal for someone looking to mod. I have seen plenty of SS owners that have spent double what I have on my car on theirs, are you telling me that for 20-30K in upgrades a V6 car couldn't be built to run?

That being said, yes, if you are building and buying for out of the box performance, the SS is going to be king, no one is having any delusions about that, the SS is an outstanding car.

The LSx series of engines has been continuously developed and improved for over a decade. It is a great platform with lots of cost effective mods and great power potential. For people looking to build four digit power, yes, it will remain king. But at that level, most V8 guys aren't using any factory engine or drivetrain parts... and have spent more on mods than I did on my entire car.

But to completely dismiss the LLT simply because it is a V6 is just plain ignorant, once this engine begins to reach its potential there are going to be a lot of surprised, and probably even a few angry, V8 owners out there.

I used to be a die-hard V8 or nothing guy too, but driving the LLT opened my eyes. Unless the CAFE regulations get drastically modified, which is unlikely to happen, the V6 is going to be part of the future of Camaro performance, with the exception of the top dog models like ZL1, assuming they remain profitable enough to remain on the market a decade from now.

This is the logic behind my LS project.

[Cristoff]

Originally Posted by CamaroFreako

V6 Camaro is not a performance car.

Hmm, I'd put a V6 up against about 80% of the cars currently on the market. I suppose it depends on what your defininition of performance is.

300+HP from a V6 is not only great performance, it's wrapped in one of the sexiest packages on the market right now.

[SIN R G]

I got the SS because I want a powerful and fun car for weekends. The V-6 is in no way a slow car, heck if I could afford it and I could drive it everyday in the winter I would love to have the V-6 as a daily driver.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by Bowtiepower00

In a year or two, once the aftermarket comes around and the TT kits are fully sorted out, the LS will be the bang for the buck winner over the SS in the right power ranges. I paid just over 20K for mine, and have seen them advertised for under 20K as of late. That gives the V6 owner a good $8K to spend just to get to the price of a Base SS. That will cover the Turbo kit and tuning. The SS owner is going to have to add a turbo/ maggie/ KB, etc, for pretty much the same money to stay ahead. For another $8K, the LS owner will be able to reinforce the engine internals, and the drivetrain, and be king in the 600-700 HP bracket (i'm talking reliably, not blowing up drivetrain parts every other launch), while retaining better weight distribution and lighter weight with the mid mounts over the sc'd V8 cars. If you factor in the drivetrain upgrades to the SS, there goes another few grand, depending on power level, that the V6 has saved over the V8. In the bolt-on only categories, yes the SS will have the advantage, but the LLT is going to have it's niche once the aftermarket comes around. If you are talking buying and modding used cars, I'm willing to bet the V6's are going to depreciate faster, making them an even better deal for someone looking to mod. I have seen plenty of SS owners that have spent double what I have on my car on theirs, are you telling me that for 20-30K in upgrades a V6 car couldn't be built to run?

That being said, yes, if you are building and buying for out of the box performance, the SS is going to be king, no one is having any delusions about that, the SS is an outstanding car.

The LSx series of engines has been continuously developed and improved for over a decade. It is a great platform with lots of cost effective mods and great power potential. For people looking to build four digit power, yes, it will remain king. But at that level, most V8 guys aren't using any factory engine or drivetrain parts... and have spent more on mods than I did on my entire car.

But to completely dismiss the LLT simply because it is a V6 is just plain ignorant, once this engine begins to reach its potential there are going to be a lot of surprised, and probably even a few angry, V8 owners out there.

I used to be a die-hard V8 or nothing guy too, but driving the LLT opened my eyes. Unless the CAFE regulations get drastically modified, which is unlikely to happen, the V6 is going to be part of the future of Camaro performance, with the exception of the top dog models like ZL1, assuming they remain profitable enough to remain on the market a decade from now.

ya man that makes perfect sense. I all most bought a 370z with a v6 engine. i love v6 engines. the problem with the v6 camaro is that the camaro weighs allot. a 370z weighs 500 pounds less with 20 more HP then a v6 camaro. the engine not the problem with the v6 camaro at all. its weighing 3800 pounds with 312HP. thats why it needs a big 6.2 L v8. lol. so again the engine is not the problem. v6 engines are great ! hell i heard the new bmw m3 is going to be a twin turbo v6. instead of the v8

on another note. if i bought a 2008 350z for 20k and put the amount of money you said to put into a v6 camaro. the 350z would be faster every time only because it weighs less.

allot of you v6 owners think us v8 guys think down on you because its a v6 when that it not true at all. GM made a great engine with 312 HP. but the car weighs allot

a 2011 bmw 335i has a twin turbo v6 with 300HP. and your v6 has 312. the engine is not the problem clearly

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Bowtiepower00

In a year or two, once the aftermarket comes around and the TT kits are fully sorted out, the LS will be the bang for the buck winner over the SS in the right power ranges. I paid just over 20K for mine, and have seen them advertised for under 20K as of late. That gives the V6 owner a good $8K to spend just to get to the price of a Base SS. That will cover the Turbo kit and tuning. The SS owner is going to have to add a turbo/ maggie/ KB, etc, for pretty much the same money to stay ahead. For another $8K, the LS owner will be able to reinforce the engine internals, and the drivetrain, and be king in the 600-700 HP bracket (i'm talking reliably, not blowing up drivetrain parts every other launch), while retaining better weight distribution and lighter weight with the mid mounts over the sc'd V8 cars. If you factor in the drivetrain upgrades to the SS, there goes another few grand, depending on power level, that the V6 has saved over the V8. In the bolt-on only categories, yes the SS will have the advantage, but the LLT is going to have it's niche once the aftermarket comes around. If you are talking buying and modding used cars, I'm willing to bet the V6's are going to depreciate faster, making them an even better deal for someone looking to mod. I have seen plenty of SS owners that have spent double what I have on my car on theirs, are you telling me that for 20-30K in upgrades a V6 car couldn't be built to run?

That being said, yes, if you are building and buying for out of the box performance, the SS is going to be king, no one is having any delusions about that, the SS is an outstanding car.

The LSx series of engines has been continuously developed and improved for over a decade. It is a great platform with lots of cost effective mods and great power potential. For people looking to build four digit power, yes, it will remain king. But at that level, most V8 guys aren't using any factory engine or drivetrain parts... and have spent more on mods than I did on my entire car.

But to completely dismiss the LLT simply because it is a V6 is just plain ignorant, once this engine begins to reach its potential there are going to be a lot of surprised, and probably even a few angry, V8 owners out there.

I used to be a die-hard V8 or nothing guy too, but driving the LLT opened my eyes. Unless the CAFE regulations get drastically modified, which is unlikely to happen, the V6 is going to be part of the future of Camaro performance, with the exception of the top dog models like ZL1, assuming they remain profitable enough to remain on the market a decade from now.

And I will quote Fbodfather when he was out here last year in a meeting we had. It was something to the effect of "the v8 wont go away, but it will get increasingly to expensive for most drivers to have"
This is due to the new cafe standards coming out in a few years, and the whole team was saying " what do you think about turbo v6's for the future?"
I think we know the direction were all headed and I dont see everyone paying $50000 or whatever for v8's like theZL1.

[Bowtiepower00]

I agree, the biggest problem with the Camaro, and modern cars in general, is the weight gain from all of the safety features and comfort options now standard on every vehicle produced.

Hopefully, this will be addressed when the gen 6 with the Alpha platform comes to market. When the 4th Gen was released, everyone raved about the car, but complained about the weight gain over the 3rd gen. When the 5th gen was released, it happened again. Hopefully the 6th gen will remain closer to the weight of it's competition. Weight is the main advantage that many cars, including the Mustang and Z, have over the Gen 5.

That being said, the 5th gen does an outstanding job of hiding its weight when you are behind the wheel. Prior to the release of the Gen 5, the Camaro would NEVER have been compared to a BMW 3-series, or Infinity G35/37, or any luxury sport coupe, they were a V8 muscle car or a V6 poser. Now it has become a legitimate competitor to cars in several sales categories and markets. I didn't buy my LS because it was a street fighter muscle car, I bought it because I see it as a low option CTS coupe at half to 2/3 the price.

I think todays HP wars are going to start to draw to a close, just like they did in the early 70's. In todays political and economical environment, it is getting tougher and tougher to justify 400+ HP to the non-enthusiast driver, regardless of how economical and emissions/ environmentally friendly they have become.

The focus is going to shift to further improving economy and reducing vehicle weight, while keeping performance at the levels they have currently reached. We will see the V8's shrink in displacement, while keeping close to current power output, with smaller displacements and or forced induction becoming much more popular across the board.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Bowtiepower00

I agree, the biggest problem with the Camaro, and modern cars in general, is the weight gain from all of the safety features and comfort options now standard on every vehicle produced.

Hopefully, this will be addressed when the gen 6 with the Alpha platform comes to market. When the 4th Gen was released, everyone raved about the car, but complained about the weight gain over the 3rd gen. When the 5th gen was released, it happened again. Hopefully the 6th gen will remain closer to the weight of it's competition. Weight is the main advantage that many cars, including the Mustang and Z, have over the Gen 5.

That being said, the 5th gen does an outstanding job of hiding its weight when you are behind the wheel. Prior to the release of the Gen 5, the Camaro would NEVER have been compared to a BMW 3-series, or Infinity G35/37, or any luxury sport coupe, they were a V8 muscle car or a V6 poser. Now it has become a legitimate competitor to cars in several sales categories and markets. I didn't buy my LS because it was a street fighter muscle car, I bought it because I see it as a low option CTS coupe at half to 2/3 the price.

I think todays HP wars are going to start to draw to a close, just like they did in the early 70's. In todays political and economical environment, it is getting tougher and tougher to justify 400+ HP to the non-enthusiast driver, regardless of how economical and emissions/ environmentally friendly they have become.

The focus is going to shift to further improving economy and reducing vehicle weight, while keeping performance at the levels they have currently reached. We will see the V8's shrink in displacement, while keeping close to current power output, with smaller displacements and or forced induction becoming much more popular across the board.

As to the weight increase:
My 83 z28 was 3250 lbs= weak body structure, was like a noddle
my 98 z28 is 3450 lbs= 30% stronger body, getting there
my 10 lt is about 3800? strongest, safest and rattle free