February 2011 Camaro Sales and Production Figures

[thePill]

Originally Posted by ChuckD

This is a fact.

Who counts fleet sales? Nobody?
This is done for every vehicle model?
This is done every month?
In every country?

If they were to do it the way you suggest then it is possible for the dealer to run dry. Waiting on dealer feedback is not the way to keep shelves stocked. The dealer must request additional cars to be shipped based on his invetory..

Sale deliveries are at invoice, not MSRP.. this is fact...

Camaro's invoice is about $2000 dollars under MSRP, I would think that profits were the same under invoice... the average profit last year per vehicle was about $1000 dollars (Ford/GM).

[RLHMARINES]

MSRP and Dealer Holdback info along with Dealer floorplan financing:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-msrp.htm
The MSRP of a vehicle does not include taxes, registration, transportation to the dealership and other miscellaneous fees. While most people expect to get a discount off the MSRP, when all of the extraneous charges are added in, the price "out the door" might be close to, or even higher than, the MSRP. In fact, MSRPs used to be set fairly high, which allowed a good-sized discount, but in recent years the trend has tended towards setting the MSRP closer to the actual market value. Depending on the model and the demand, it is not unusual today to pay full MSRP at a dealership, plus the miscellaneous charges.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/
Dealer holdback is a percentage of either the MSRP or invoice price of a new vehicle (depending on the manufacturer) that is repaid to the dealer by the manufacturer. The holdback is designed to supplement the dealer's cash flow and indirectly reduce "variable sales expenses" (code words for sales commissions) by artificially elevating the dealership's paper cost.

Dealerships must have an inventory on hand so that consumers can browse and ultimately select a vehicle. Dealerships must pay for this inventory when it is obtained from the manufacturer, and the amount the dealer pays is the price reflected on the invoice from the manufacturer to the dealer, the so-called "invoice price."

Now the twist: with the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3% of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for that excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only some time after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership.

Why the sleight-of-hand you might ask? Because holdbacks can benefit dealers in three ways:

Dealerships borrow money to finance cars based on an invoiced amount that includes the holdback. So the higher the invoiced amount, the more the dealership can borrow from its lender.
Inflating the dealership's "cost" can have the effect of increasing profit, since sales personnel are paid commissions based on the "gross profit" of each sale. Holdbacks have the effect of lowering the gross profit and thus the sales commissions.
Holdbacks enable dealerships to advertise "invoice price" sales and sell their vehicles at or near invoice and still make hundreds of dollars on the transaction.


http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/31/smal....smb/index.htm

A typical floor plan loan is a revolving credit line that a dealership uses to purchase vehicles. As the cars and trucks sell, the dealership pays down the loan.


Sorry for helping to hijack this thread, it was not my intention to do so.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Me personally, my passion is the Camaro, not GM. To some it is just a car. I'm sorry, I can't relate to that type of thinking when it comes to my SS. It is so much more than that. Some can understand that, some cannot and that's okay. I don't question peoples passions. It makes them who they are, and that's good thing.

couldn't have said it better myself!!!!!

[thePill]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

MSRP and Dealer Holdback info along with Dealer floorplan financing:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-msrp.htm

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/
Dealer holdback is a percentage of either the MSRP or invoice price of a new vehicle (depending on the manufacturer) that is repaid to the dealer by the manufacturer. The holdback is designed to supplement the dealer's cash flow and indirectly reduce "variable sales expenses" (code words for sales commissions) by artificially elevating the dealership's paper cost.

Dealerships must have an inventory on hand so that consumers can browse and ultimately select a vehicle. Dealerships must pay for this inventory when it is obtained from the manufacturer, and the amount the dealer pays is the price reflected on the invoice from the manufacturer to the dealer, the so-called "invoice price."

Now the twist: with the introduction of holdbacks some years ago, most manufacturers inflated the invoice prices for every vehicle by a predetermined amount (2-3% of MSRP is typical). The dealer pays that inflated amount when it buys the car from the manufacturer. But later, at predetermined times (usually quarterly), the manufacturer reimburses the dealer for that excess amount. This is the "holdback," so named because funds are "held back" by the manufacturer and released only some time after the vehicle is invoiced to the dealership.

Why the sleight-of-hand you might ask? Because holdbacks can benefit dealers in three ways:

Dealerships borrow money to finance cars based on an invoiced amount that includes the holdback. So the higher the invoiced amount, the more the dealership can borrow from its lender.
Inflating the dealership's "cost" can have the effect of increasing profit, since sales personnel are paid commissions based on the "gross profit" of each sale. Holdbacks have the effect of lowering the gross profit and thus the sales commissions.
Holdbacks enable dealerships to advertise "invoice price" sales and sell their vehicles at or near invoice and still make hundreds of dollars on the transaction.


http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/31/smal....smb/index.htm

Thanks for doing the work for me...

What Are Holdbacks For?

Dealerships must have an inventory on hand so that consumers can browse and ultimately select a vehicle. Dealerships must pay for this inventory when it is obtained from the manufacturer, and the amount the dealer pays is the price reflected on the invoice from the manufacturer to the dealer, the so-called "invoice price."

[revwriter311]

Originally Posted by Maurdib

Are you serious, GM just had 4.7 billion dollar profit margin, All debts are paid and money is being made and bonuses are being handed out. Get over the bail out already, Ford wanted one to but backed out

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/...oney-on-gm-ipo

All those months that GM advertised they had paid back their loans in full was a complete lie. The only reason I bought my Camaro was because I love the car, not the company.

[ChuckD]

Originally Posted by thePill

Who counts fleet sales? Nobody?
This is done for every vehicle model?
This is done every month?
In every country?

If they were to do it the way you suggest then it is possible for the dealer to run dry. Waiting on dealer feedback is not the way to keep shelves stocked. The dealer must request additional cars to be shipped based on his invetory..

Sale deliveries are at invoice, not MSRP.. this is fact...

Camaro's invoice is about $2000 dollars under MSRP, I would think that profits were the same under invoice... the average profit last year per vehicle was about $1000 dollars (Ford/GM).

Sales are counted by the manufacturer in multiple ways:

1) As deliveries to dealer or other party. This is for internal tracking of sales and financial accounting purposes.

2) As deliveries to the ultimate customer. Retail data provided by dealer networks. Fleet data provided by fleet deliveries. This data is used in press releases from all manufacturers. It's a metric used by the financial industry for analysis of the auto industry.

[lets_go_bills]

...and the Camaro population keeps growing.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by ChuckD

Sales are counted by the manufacturer in multiple ways:

1) As deliveries to dealer or other party. This is for internal tracking of sales and financial accounting purposes.

2) As deliveries to the ultimate customer. Retail data provided by dealer networks. Fleet data provided by fleet deliveries. This data is used in press releases from all manufacturers. It's a metric used by the financial industry for analysis of the auto industry.

The ultimate buyer is always the dealer, even if he sets you down at his desk and makes you feel as if you are ordering the car. He is the one ordering the car at invoice and... they also absorb your factory rebates. That is why it is good to know if there are any factory rebates before you go to the dealer...

[DarkneSS]

Originally Posted by thePill

The Camaro still has not sold more in its current generation than the 2005 Mustang had for a single MY. Let me know when they hit the 500k mark and I'll tell you how much more they have to go... 147k in two MY's

Sales for this market are horrible right now...

Let me know when Mustangs outsell 5th gen Camaros, haha dont worry I'll wait.

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Quit living in the past. Now is now.

Precisely, some people have a hard time accepting facts and truths.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

Let me know when Mustangs outsell 5th gen Camaros, haha dont worry I'll wait

Redesign in 2013, there is no way the S197, after being out for 7 years will outsell the Camaro. Unless the Camaro sales continue to fall and they most likely will, there will always be a gap between a 7 year old model and a 2 year old model. Anything that Ford can manage to sell now is amazing, cutting production will also help them maintain profits until the redesign... If Ford was willing to take the risk to try to outsell the Camaro, they would have to restore all three shifts in Flat Rock and make changes to the current car.. Not going to happen, not when next year is the last S197 MY. It is physically impossible for Ford or Dodge to outsell the Camaro, Ford and Dodge only produce half of what GM does... They most likely make more profit per vehicle by limiting production but they will not outsell the Camaro until the 50th anniversary Mustang ready to sell.

We should get a look at the new car sometime next year.. Then both the 5th Gen and S197 will be laughed at...

[thePill]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

Precisely, some people have a hard time accepting facts and truths.

Hands down sales go to the newer car, hands down... the ability to perform goes to the Mustang .

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by thePill

Hands down sales go to the newer car, hands down... the ability to perform goes to the Mustang .

I would say there would not be a shortage of 5th gens that would love to hand your ass to you on a platter.

[DarkneSS]

Originally Posted by thePill

Redesign in 2013, there is no way the S197, after being out for 7 years will outsell the Camaro. Unless the Camaro sales continue to fall and they most likely will, there will always be a gap between a 7 year old model and a 2 year old model. Anything that Ford can manage to sell now is amazing, cutting production will also help them maintain profits until the redesign... If Ford was willing to take the risk to try to outsell the Camaro, they would have to restore all three shifts in Flat Rock and make changes to the current car.. Not going to happen, not when next year is the last S197 MY. It is physically impossible for Ford or Dodge to outsell the Camaro, Ford and Dodge only produce half of what GM does... They most likely make more profit per vehicle by limiting production but they will not outsell the Camaro until the 50th anniversary Mustang ready to sell.

We should get a look at the new car sometime next year.. Then both the 5th Gen and S197 will be laughed at...

Sorry but I doubt that. This 5th gen Camaro is just too awesome and has become a huge favorite among many people of all ages. The mustang is too common and played out for people to care anymore. Had I gotten the V6 Stang instead no one on my street would have even noticed or cared. Thats not to say I bought the car just for other people though, hell no.

The point is this car is fresh and strikingly beautiful to the point where it has completely owned the Mustang and by the numbers has won more fans than the Mustang.

If the next generation Camaro is as good as this one it will out sell the mustang gain.

The even bigger point is that the Camaro is now KING and the Mustang must now play catch up. Just accept it man and like I said maybe you guys will win it back next round, but this one is ours

[Mr. Wyndham]

♫ ♫ Why, oh why did this thread get off track...why, oh why can that be?? ♫ ♫

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