2012 ZL1 vs. 2012 Boss 302

[thePill]

Originally Posted by SSmoked

Well i personaly expected nothing but PERFECTION out of the boss at laguna. Was the car not built on that track. i rember watching the show on speed about the creation of the new boss 302 and it was doing all of its testing on laguna seca.
on a short track like laguna the boss has the ZL1 beat. but bring the boss to the nuribergring where the ZL1 was built i a can see the ZL1 killing the boss.

but we wont see any reviews about the ZL1 till 2012.

The Boss was initially built on Ford's Dearborn Development Center and the Michigan Proving Grounds. It was further tested in Arizona at Ford's proving ground facility. It wasn't run at Laguna until the final product was completed and ready for testing. Laguna is one of America's most technical tracks.

The Boss is made for close road circuits, any circuit that has long straightaways it would fall behind. Nurburgring is a long track and is rarely raced as a whole track. What most people think is Nurburgring is actually Nordschleife which is the largest section of the Nurburgring. Since Nurburgring is a public road and not a real race track, certain sections are well maintained to attract popular series like F1. At Nordschleife, The faster car, the ZL1(top speed) would win. On Sudschleife or GP-Strecke, where extreme cornering is required and top speed is hindered, the Boss would most likely out handle the ZL1.

And how good is it going to be after a few laps? Brake fade on a heavy car, heat soak from the supercharger and a regular GT averages 6mpg on a short track, how much fuel would an LSA require on a 14 mile track? You would have to pit every two laps...

Remember though, the Ring is a public road with people driving on it that are not racing unless the road is closed to race... This is the world’s fastest road course and with pedestrians traveling on it, it is hard to be that fast. I always wondered why GM would test the car on a track that very few could actually race on.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Let a pro driver with some seat time have at it in a ZL1 and I bet you'd be surprised at how well it does. Actually, do that for any car on that list and the times will likely improve, unless it was already intended to be a record setting run (like the Dodge Viper) in which case, improvements will be minimal.

All of those runs I posted were accomplished by professional drivers, There was an editor from a well known magazine that drove the Boss and got a 4 minute lap time on the video. Completely sucking is very possible in any car and I can tell you who is going to suck because they have a history of sucking... (and admit they suck according to their last publication)

Ford won't have to cut production, they have extra capacity. And special models hardly ever squeeze out regular production cars. Their purpose is to draw attention to the car & brand in order to boost sales. If you have to cut production to do that, you're being stupid. And Ford isn't stupid

I agree, I just think demand is dwindling for the S197 and producing the amounts they did last year would be ill-advised. Ford will produce about 10k less Mustangs this year with the final MY being the lowest. Ford won't just cut production just to make SE's, the S197 is naturally in low demand... Why make more Mustangs if they are not selling? I know Ford isn't stupid but it would be stupid to continue to push units when they know they will not sell.. kind of a waste...

[thePill]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Maybe the Boss 302S would be a better compro.

Hell Yeah!!!

BOSS 302S


VS.

SSX

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by BigDan

You have to be joking, if not I believe you sir are the only person on C5 that would rather have a 300hp FWD vs RWD or AWD. I don't even think you could get a 300whp SRT-4 owner to agree with you

+1

FWD is retarded.

Torque steer off the line. Push in the curves under acceleration. It just doesnt feel right at all in my opinion. FWD does not equal sports car in my book...just terrible. No fun AT ALL.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 08-G35s/6MT

Hey now there's still the 285-hp Dodge Caliber SRT4, mid-13/0-60 in 4s WRX, and umm.... Mazdaspeed3 maybe ? Hmm... yeah that's about it.... But those are fwd or awd(which could be a good thing ?) so depends...

Anyhow if I was looking for just a flat out fun car(not necessarily the fastest) I would personally rather have a 300-hp fwd car. With awd it's not that fun, with rwd the only thing going for it is donuts in the fun factor....

They don't make the SRT-4s anymore and the Cobalt SS would be there if GM hadn't killed it.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

I'd really like to see what numbers the SSX puts down seeing as it would be pretty much a direct competitor to the Boss LS. It would interesting to compare the two.

SSX is a boss302S competitor, not a street car competitor like the Boss302LS. chevrolet factory production line produced cars. there isnt one in existence. a true Z28. i think chevy fans will have to wait for teh alpha version. 3700-4000 lbs isnt going to compete with a 3400-3550lb R compound LS.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by 08-G35s/6MT

Hey now there's still the 285-hp Dodge Caliber SRT4, mid-13/0-60 in 4s WRX, and umm.... Mazdaspeed3 maybe ? Hmm... yeah that's about it.... But those are fwd or awd(which could be a good thing ?) so depends...

Anyhow if I was looking for just a flat out fun car(not necessarily the fastest) I would personally rather have a 300-hp fwd car. With awd it's not that fun, with rwd the only thing going for it is donuts in the fun factor....

there are no FWD road course competitve cars in the world. EVERY series requires major handicaps for the RWD cars for there to even BE a competition. a loose car is a fast car. there is no such things as a loose/fast FWD car. power-on understeer losses every time. RWD car just powers away.

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

+1

FWD is retarded.

Torque steer off the line. Push in the curves under acceleration. It just doesnt feel right at all in my opinion. FWD does not equal sports car in my book...just terrible. No fun AT ALL.

The only fun to be had with a FWD car is doing reverse donuts on a snow covered parking lot.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

The only fun to be had with a FWD car is doing reverse donuts on a snow covered parking lot.

LOL....so true

[CoolestCamaro873]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

Around the track, no. The ZL1 has NO chance, there is no way it's gonna put up better times than it's Zo6 brethren (which the boss has already surpassed). With that in mind, at the strip, it will definitely be faster then the boss, right on par with the gt500.

Not for nothing but the Boss 302 is putting up numbers that the GT500 puts up. It's 0-60: 4 sec & 1/4 Mile: 12.3 @ 115 mph is damn close if not identical to most 2011 GT500 SVT Perf Pack tests I have read. So the ZL1 has to be better than both the GT500 as well as the Boss 302 at the strip.

[SWAT 79]

Originally Posted by CoolestCamaro873

Not for nothing but the Boss 302 is putting up numbers that the GT500 puts up. It's 0-60: 4 sec & 1/4 Mile: 12.3 @ 115 mph is damn close if not identical to most 2011 GT500 SVT Perf Pack tests I have read. So the ZL1 has to be better than both the GT500 as well as the Boss 302 at the strip.

That is a very poor time for the gt500, with just tires, the 2010 and up gt500 has run low elevens.

Everyone knows not to use magazine times for the gt500 because of the shitty tires it comes with stock, and the difficulty in driving it.

As I said, the zl1 will be faster at the strip then the boss, but has no shot on a road course. In regards to the gt500, it puts the zl1 in a weird place of being faster then the corvette (taking potential business away from that market) which is why I could see it matching the stock c6 6m.

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by assasinator

there are no FWD road course competitve cars in the world. EVERY series requires major handicaps for the RWD cars for there to even BE a competition. a loose car is a fast car. there is no such things as a loose/fast FWD car. power-on understeer losses every time. RWD car just powers away.

This is the only FWD car I would want to race and own.



I've heard they out handle a lot of comparable RWD's.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by SWAT 79

That is a very poor time for the gt500, with just tires, the 2010 and up gt500 has run low elevens.

Everyone knows not to use magazine times for the gt500 because of the shitty tires it comes with stock, and the difficulty in driving it.

As I said, the zl1 will be faster at the strip then the boss, but has no shot on a road course. In regards to the gt500, it puts the zl1 in a weird place of being faster then the corvette (taking potential business away from that market) which is why I could see it matching the stock c6 6m.

Its not that the Goodyears are extremely bad, the tread wear rating is alittle stiff compared to the PS2's and P Zeros. I thought that all three had a 220 but the GY F1's were rated at 280... The reason the Goodyears are so bad is that they require to be heated before runs and magazine testers (and myself) didn't know that until about 4 weeks ago...

So, being rated at 280 and being pre-heated raises some issues when 550hp come into play. The reason would be cost because PS2's and P Zeros are twice the price per tire..

Edit: There is a simple fix though, see Big Dan's sig pic..

[08-G35s/6MT]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

+1

FWD is retarded.

Torque steer off the line. Push in the curves under acceleration. It just doesnt feel right at all in my opinion. FWD does not equal sports car in my book...just terrible. No fun AT ALL.

Torque steer makes it more thrilling, you can do e-brake turns, it handles better around town typically(lighter weight versus a 3500 lb+ coupe), and its just plain fun. Honda Prelude Type-SH with it's torque vectoring ATTS differential(A must have for any fwd car IMO with 200+ hp, helps tremendously) that transferred near 90% of power to the outside wheel in a turn made it one of the funnest cars on a back road. RWD still understeers like any other car would if you would enter a corner too fast. FWD means lighter weight and more control. It's a subjective opinion. RWD has more performance credentials, obviously, but fwd can be funner(besides doing donuts out in a parking lot, or illegally drifting around corners in town) in normal day to day driving IMO..... and not having to worry about keeping the tail in check when pulling out into traffic if it's a bit slick or if you accelerate through a turn a bit too much, fwd breaks loose gradually, versus my car, which breaks loose relatively quickly with less warning... though if I was all for tokyo drifting and doing donuts, rwd would be funner, but those limits of performance aren't legally attainable in day to day driving... But rwd does have better aesthetic qualites about it(steering feel, weight balance, higher overall levels of performance and grip, etc.) which is part of the reason why I own a rwd car. I was just talking about which type of car with 300 hp would appeal to the "fun" side, a 300 hp fwd car would probably be faster(from a roll or such) because typical 300 hp fwd cars weigh around 3300 lbs or less(Ford Focus RS500 anyone ?) versus the average 300 hp rwd car(3600-3700 lbs).