Camaro VS Mustang Mega Thread

[ironpeddler]

I still think the next gen mustang will be in 2014. The 2013 will pretty much be the same as the 2010-2012 except with more power maybe, minor changes. I think the exterior body will be basically the same, still will be a 5.4L. I expect the 2014 to have a completely new exterior look and hopefully something new under the hood. Only time will tell.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by ironpeddler

I still think the next gen mustang will be in 2014. The 2013 will pretty much be the same as the 2010-2012 except with more power maybe, minor changes. I think the exterior body will be basically the same, still will be a 5.4L. I expect the 2014 to have a completely new exterior look and hopefully something new under the hood. Only time will tell.

Ford seems to be puttin off new under the hood. There were talks of a direct injection twin turbo 5.0 but ford said turbos wouldnt fit in engine compartment.. there also talks of a 6.4L V10 but I heard it is expensive.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

Ford seems to be puttin off new under the hood. There were talks of a direct injection twin turbo 5.0 but ford said turbos wouldnt fit in engine compartment.. there also talks of a 6.4L V10 but I heard it is expensive.

There are several engine options on deck right now. You are correct about Ford saying that a TT 5.0 not being able to fit under the hood. Ford wasn't lying to you, the truth changed... Ford has an experimental 5.0 over here in Europe called the EU-01. It is a collaboration between Ford, Steve Saleen of SMS, Supercars of America and 5.0 Magazine. The twin turbo setup is housed under the car and straddles the transmission. EU-01 currently runs a cat-less exhaust but managed a 585rwhp dyno run late last year. The twin turbo 5.0 or as Ford codenamed it "Road Runner" was in parallel development with the 5.0 "Coyote" in 2008-2009.

The second option is another TT 5.0 that the twin turbos are housed in the valley, this eliminates a lot of turbo plumbing and is pretty much the same setup that the Ford Powerstoke turbo uses (single turbo). Although there is quite a few Ford guys calling for the TT 5.0, I'm not sure 2013 will be the year Ford uses it. A fully forged Twin Turbo 5.0 is definitely an option though with or without the sodium valve Boss heads...

The third option is to use the 5.8 liter Coyote stroker. This engine shares the deck height of the 5.4 and was said to produce a lot of low end torque. This engine was also developed side by side with the 5.0 Coyote and continued development in Australia in 2010. This engine uses the 5.0 Coyote heads, is Direct Injection ready and also sports TiVCT. Until a few months ago, very little was known about the engine in general but when the "5.8 TVS" rumor went live, numerous threads began commenting on this engine again.

The forth option is the bored 5.4 that Car and Driver reported. The actual report said that the 5.4's displacement would be increased to 5.8 liters, C&D never actually stated that it would be bored out. Boring the 5.4 up to a 5.8 can be done, but it would really push the maximum 3.7 inch bore that the 5.4 is recommended to NOT exceed. It would greatly reduce the durability of the engine, something the 5.4 is known the world over for. The 5.4 is on borrowed time, Ford absolutely will not R&D TiVCT for the 5.4, especially since the 5.4 has ceased production and usage in Australia due to Euro4 standards.

The fifth option would be just to slap a 2300 TVS on top of the 5.4 and call it 620hp. This option would bring about the gas guzzler tax again unless the production rate was so low that it wouldn't affect it (2011 GT500 does this)

Ford is seeking a replacement for the mighty 5.4, a sports car engine... and the Coyote 5.8 would be it. Ford has a new GT, the Cobra, possibly the GR-1 and the new Mustang that would use this 5.8C. This greatest benefit using the 5.8C would be even more weight loss over the 5.4 and it would cost a fraction of what the 5.4 does. The Coyotes use a lighter, more compact transmission in the Getrag. The 5.0's MT82 Getrag weighs 109lbs wet and ready to run where the current 5.4's TR6060 weighs 159lbs. The aluminum 5.4 weighs 30lbs more than the Coyote and techniques like PTWA and EPAS can easily be transferred to the new engine. Can you imagine another 50-80lbs off the front of the Mustang? Cost is still up in the air right now, any forced induction engine will be fully forged but if the engine is built alongside the 5.0's, the cost will come down a good bit...

The V10 is a great engine but I personally cannot see it in a Mustang. I had heard that the V10 was destined for a GT1 class car which would most likely be a Ford GT.

[GQ4Life]

Not sure what V10 designed for but was first put in the corba concept then the GR-1 which gr-1 stands for some racing class.. Then there is still talks about ford GT something to replace it or bringing it back

[thePill]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

Not sure what V10 designed for but was first put in the corba concept then the GR-1 which gr-1 stands for some racing class.. Then there is still talks about ford GT something to replace it or bringing it back

The GR-1 stands for Group Racing and it could be in literally any class from GT1 to GT6, GS or ST. The Ford GT is still in the works and won't have to be produced until the Ford GT that currently runs in the FIA GT1 cannot run anymore. It has to do with the production car rules, I believe its within 3 years but not sure. The engine in the Ford GT1 in FIA is unknown to me and if I remember correctly, it is a prototype just like the GT3 Mustang's 5.3 Coyote... Actually, most of the technology in every class in FIA is prototype stuff. The Mustang is using the Ford/Roush/Yates Coyote 5.3 and the next generation Control Blade Independant Rear Suspension and the next generation Prototype Mac Indie front suspension. Multimatic is usually the one that helps with the R&D.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by thePill

The GR-1 stands for Group Racing and it could be in literally any class from GT1 to GT6, GS or ST. The Ford GT is still in the works and won't have to be produced until the Ford GT that currently runs in the FIA GT1 cannot run anymore. It has to do with the production car rules, I believe its within 3 years but not sure. The engine in the Ford GT1 in FIA is unknown to me and if I remember correctly, it is a prototype just like the GT3 Mustang's 5.3 Coyote... Actually, most of the technology in every class in FIA is prototype stuff. The Mustang is using the Ford/Roush/Yates Coyote 5.3 and the next generation Control Blade Independant Rear Suspension and the next generation Prototype Mac Indie front suspension. Multimatic is usually the one that helps with the R&D.

Dont know if they changed it but they were using the Cammer engine. Bore out most likely..

[CamaroKid300]

thePill.....

I just read your long paragraph talking about the new engine possibilities...

DAMN you know your stuff.

I'm impressed.

[blizzpat]

LS9 ftw.

On a serious note, good read pill...very informative. TT 5.0 = death of camaros.

GMs big plan seems to be the new 5.5 v8... Wish GM would try to turbo one of its LS engines.... :( Turbo LS7 anyone?

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by blizzpat

LS9 ftw.

On a serious note, good read pill...very informative. TT 5.0 = death of camaros.

GMs big plan seems to be the new 5.5 v8... Wish GM would try to turbo one of its LS engines.... :( Turbo LS7 anyone?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the LS7 doesnt take boost very well.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the LS7 doesnt take boost very well.

Yea read the same. They said it has thin walls..

GMs 5.5 V8 with direct injection going to be a nice engine if they give it forged internals.. I dont understand why they didnt just stay with the 6.2L size they been know for for so many years now.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

Yea read the same. They said it has thin walls..

GMs 5.5 V8 with direct injection going to be a nice engine if they give it forged internals.. I dont understand why they didnt just stay with the 6.2L size they been know for for so many years now.

Fuel economy and public image, I would venture to guess.

Saying "its a 5.5 liter" makes you sound more fuel minded versus when you say "Its a 6.2 liter".

But primarily its CAFE that is bringing on the smaller displacement motors.

[8cd03gro]

The first one to build a turbo v8 in their pony car is the winnar imo. I love me some supercharged v8, but there's no denying the power you can pull out of a turbo setup with the aftermarket. I can imagine a tt 5.0 with simple bolt ons running e85 (or something along those lines) would be making some absolutely nasty power numbers and godly torque.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Fuel economy and public image, I would venture to guess.

Saying "its a 5.5 liter" makes you sound more fuel minded versus when you say "Its a 6.2 liter".

But primarily its CAFE that is bringing on the smaller displacement motors.

That is true smaller liter does usually mean better gas milage.. for that a turbo setup instead of supercharger gives better gas milage too

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

That is true smaller liter does usually mean better gas milage.. for that a turbo setup instead of supercharger gives better gas milage too

I wouldnt count on FI 5.5's for a while, at least not for public consumption.