ZL1 vs GT500

[Brakelate]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

Love to see the videos..
Yea drifting can send temps sky high.. going sideways on throttle boosting and not much air going over radiator and intercooler or heat excharger..

Well, unlike a parking lot or typical slow rolling burnout sort of thing, I was going bonkers. It was up in the low 100's air temps, but I was doing big arcs at 90 mph and beyond.

I have a raw video, but it's crummy with too much leadk-in and waiting around documenting the engine damage (before I went drifting).

I need to get the footage, and cut it down to just the good stuff, and I'll post it up.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by Brakelate

Well, unlike a parking lot or typical slow rolling burnout sort of thing, I was going bonkers. It was up in the low 100's air temps, but I was doing big arcs at 90 mph and beyond.

I have a raw video, but it's crummy with too much leadk-in and waiting around documenting the engine damage (before I went drifting).

I need to get the footage, and cut it down to just the good stuff, and I'll post it up.

Sweet!!.. that be nice

[Brakelate]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Very nice setup.
Is 12psi. considered low boost in the Mustang world if so what's considered big dyno numbers for the ford engine?
What's the compression ration of the engine, must be very low?
Also, you using any safety adders like meth?

Well, it all varies.

Most "bolt on" Cobra's are running right around 12 psi with a simple exhaust / pulley swap and hand held tuner. VERY affordable and reliable package. You'll see 450-470 to the wheels, depending on supporting mods (X-pipe, cat back and how big a CAI you run).

I am sort of a unique case. I run a stock Eaton, ported, but at low boost. At 11.9 psi I get my numbers on 91 octane, with a dyno tune. I have a simple chip with one tune so it is what it is. Fuel quality and amount limit the power. I'm getting right around 500/500, a bit more on a night with good cold air and a cold motor. I am leaving alot on the table.

If done right, the stock long block can take ALOT of power and boost if tuned right and you go with a "flip chip" or one with multiple tunes for various octane levels. I've seen well up around 14-16 psi, but those guys are running 100 octane tunes, typically with Kenne Bell or other such larger aftermarket blower. They seem to see alot of use with the problem being intake temps, bad gas and aggressive timing, etc.
These guys see a legit 600+ Hp to the wheels.

The big killer is heat and going lean. Most Cobra motors cook during top speed runs, where they are WOT through all the gears and held that way for a minute or two, rather than a drag strip pass or a quick punch off on the freeway.

Most can handle a 11 second pass or a pull through a gear, even at those power levels with stock cooling and no other tricks such as meth injection, etc.

These cars are great stop light warriors. They sprint well, but aren't up to holding them wide open across the desert for extended periods or even 20 min sessions on a road racing track, especially in high air temps.

I seem to get away with it, due to the reduced boost levels. By the way, my compression jumped a bit, from the typical 8.5 or so up to around 9 to 1 due to a slight overbore and the use of a more flat topped piston, rather than the dished type stock units. No problems so far.

I should add that I needed to go with a Boost A Pump to up the output of my stock fuel pumps as well after the rebuilt / port. I have the supporting mods and internal strength to go much higher. I just need a 2lb lower pulley, turn up the BAP and tune for it, and my Dyno guy said I could be easily at 620-640 or so all day long. I just know my WOT time before heat soak would be greatly reduced, so like I said, I've held off. But seriously, if modern cars such as this insane S/C'd Vette actually hit the streets as promised, I may just have to bite the bullet and go big.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by Brakelate

Well, it all varies.

Most "bolt on" Cobra's are running right around 12 psi with a simple exhaust / pulley swap and hand held tuner. VERY affordable and reliable package. You'll see 450-470 to the wheels, depending on supporting mods (X-pipe, cat back and how big a CAI you run).

I am sort of a unique case. I run a stock Eaton, ported, but at low boost. At 11.9 psi I get my numbers on 91 octane, with a dyno tune. I have a simple chip with one tune so it is what it is. Fuel quality and amount limit the power. I'm getting right around 500/500, a bit more on a night with good cold air and a cold motor. I am leaving alot on the table.

If done right, the stock long block can take ALOT of power and boost if tuned right and you go with a "flip chip" or one with multiple tunes for various octane levels. I've seen well up around 14-16 psi, but those guys are running 100 octane tunes, typically with Kenne Bell or other such larger aftermarket blower. They seem to see alot of use with the problem being intake temps, bad gas and aggressive timing, etc.
These guys see a legit 600+ Hp to the wheels.

The big killer is heat and going lean. Most Cobra motors cook during top speed runs, where they are WOT through all the gears and held that way for a minute or two, rather than a drag strip pass or a quick punch off on the freeway.

Most can handle a 11 second pass or a pull through a gear, even at those power levels with stock cooling and no other tricks such as meth injection, etc.

These cars are great stop light warriors. They sprint well, but aren't up to holding them wide open across the desert for extended periods or even 20 min sessions on a road racing track, especially in high air temps.

I seem to get away with it, due to the reduced boost levels. By the way, my compression jumped a bit, from the typical 8.5 or so up to around 9 to 1 due to a slight overbore and the use of a more flat topped piston, rather than the dished type stock units. No problems so far.

I should add that I needed to go with a Boost A Pump to up the output of my stock fuel pumps as well after the rebuilt / port. I have the supporting mods and internal strength to go much higher. I just need a 2lb lower pulley, turn up the BAP and tune for it, and my Dyno guy said I could be easily at 620-640 or so all day long. I just know my WOT time before heat soak would be greatly reduced, so like I said, I've held off. But seriously, if modern cars such as this insane S/C'd Vette actually hit the streets as promised, I may just have to bite the bullet and go big.

You said you dont have stock pistons anymore.. do you still have stock rods?

[Brakelate]

Yup. Stock rods. They are quite stout. After researching it, it seems the weak link is actually the rod bolts. So we went with higher quality pieces and better bearings.

I wasn't opposed to stock pistons, they were just not available in the new bore size at the time I did the build, so we had to go with the flat tops.

I was a bit worried. It was a mixed bag of tricks, and my calculations showed that I was going somewhere no one else had gone; Porting the blower, and adding a bit higher compression ratio, while still running crummy CA pump gas.

I was worried as it went against traditional thinking. Raising boost and compression. In the end, the port work was much more efficient than we had ever expected, so as it turned out, the reduction in boost more than washed any comp. ratio bump in the cylinders.

These cars have damn good guts stock. Pistons, rods, crank and even the design of the heads and varoius intake manifold / head gaskets are amazing. We just trimmed them up to match the ports after opening things up a bit and taking a bit of flashing off the plastic gasket material, and still had no concerns as they had molded rubber o-ring designs and never even came close to making the tolerances "thin".

The thing idles great, and pulls like a friggin big block, yet with the tune, intake and valve train I raised the redline to 7200 rpm and it can pull cleanly into it. It however, does enjoy short shifting as my trap speeds jumped dramatically when I started shifting at 5800 rather than 6200.

The wife can drive it around and it has an amazing torque curve.

I may just post the extended video to save time if you really want to see it.

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by Brakelate

Yup. Stock rods. They are quite stout. After researching it, it seems the weak link is actually the rod bolts. So we went with higher quality pieces and better bearings.

I wasn't opposed to stock pistons, they were just not available in the new bore size at the time I did the build, so we had to go with the flat tops.

I was a bit worried. It was a mixed bag of tricks, and my calculations showed that I was going somewhere no one else had gone; Porting the blower, and adding a bit higher compression ratio, while still running crummy CA pump gas.

I was worried as it went against traditional thinking. Raising boost and compression. In the end, the port work was much more efficient than we had ever expected, so as it turned out, the reduction in boost more than washed any comp. ratio bump in the cylinders.

These cars have damn good guts stock. Pistons, rods, crank and even the design of the heads and varoius intake manifold / head gaskets are amazing. We just trimmed them up to match the ports after opening things up a bit and taking a bit of flashing off the plastic gasket material, and still had no concerns as they had molded rubber o-ring designs and never even came close to making the tolerances "thin".

The thing idles great, and pulls like a friggin big block, yet with the tune, intake and valve train I raised the redline to 7200 rpm and it can pull cleanly into it. It however, does enjoy short shifting as my trap speeds jumped dramatically when I started shifting at 5800 rather than 6200.

The wife can drive it around and it has an amazing torque curve.

I may just post the extended video to save time if you really want to see it.

Oh its the rod bolts that weak.. was asking because I know a friend in texas.. blew motor seemed to be rods. He had stock internals and kennebell pushing 650wHP.. People did tell him he was kind of pushing it for a daily driver that gets beaten on constantly..
Really sucks to blow a motor especially if it ruins the block..

[Brakelate]

OK, here is the video link.

Looking at it now, I admit is seems a bit abusive.

I had already done my high speed run and hurt the motor. I was a bit irritated and figured if I was going to have to do a full rebuild, hell why not scatter the thing?

So the lengthy intro is after the 168 run and the piston damage. I was trying to film some high speed drifts and skid recovery practice (ok, stunt driving), but the white Cobra was using an old GoPro and wouldn't get close enough to capture anything good. This resulted in most of the really high speed, extended drifts occuring well away from the stationary camera guy in the interest of safety. But, you get the idea. It still sounded great at full song, IMHO.

Believe it or not, it wouldn't die! We drove it home and put a couple hundred miles on it with melted pistons just slapping away. Never left me stranded.

The silty dust was everywhere. But, after the build, I gave her a good bubble bath and detail job and it's back to better and sharper than before, with no lasting damage, internally or cosmetically. Though it did turn out to be about a $4500 day after the motor build was factored in (still a total bargain, IMHO). So I got off easy for a day of complete foolishness. But it was worth living everyone's dream of running amuck on a dry lake.

You can also search this guy's channel if you want to see my early dyno pull netting like 480 hp and almost 500 ft-lbs. That was when we realized the port was beyond our expectations and I had to go and add a Boost a Pump to dial up the fuel delivery to safely put down what I am running now.



Thanks for all the compliments and interest in the car. I never expected this to turn into "my" motor build thread, especially here. But it's been a wild ride. Quite literally.

You can jump to about the 1:50 min mark to get straight to the action, if you want to skip the extended idle rattling.

[GQ4Life]

That looked like fun.. When can I go..
There 1 mile track near me.. think its really 2 miles.
but they told me if you do over 120mph you need roll cage.. what bullshit but they have bike doing over 200mph..

[Brakelate]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

Really sucks to blow a motor especially if it ruins the block..

Yeah, I guess I got lucky. Most seem like a lack of octane (poor tune) or a hiccup in the fuel system that cause them to go lean. Even for a split second, it's like a arc welder in there.

Mine was just like a quick stumble and the damage was done. All gauges and temps seemed fine. It was over before I knew it.

It melted two pistons (opposite banks) down from the crown, into the oil ring grooves! Got them so hot they went a bit oval and the slapping noise resulted.

Rod or crank failures are odd, IMHO, but hell at 650 real deal rear wheel horsepower, anything is possible.

Oddly, upon inspection, even after 40k+ of boosted miles including numerous drag launches off the redline on slicks, open tracking and 25k a year commuter use, all the cylinders were showing the factory cross hatch hone marks and the Rods were like works of art... neat SVT logo still clearly visible on them all, even after all that heat!

[GQ4Life]

Originally Posted by Brakelate

Yeah, I guess I got lucky. Most seem like a lack of octane (poor tune) or a hiccup in the fuel system that cause them to go lean. Even for a split second, it's like a arc welder in there.

Mine was just like a quick stumble and the damage was done. All gauges and temps seemed fine. It was over before I knew it.

It melted two pistons (opposite banks) down from the crown, into the oil ring grooves! Got them so hot they went a bit oval and the slapping noise resulted.

Rod or crank failures are odd, IMHO, but hell at 650 real deal rear wheel horsepower, anything is possible.

Oddly, upon inspection, even after 40k+ of boosted miles including numerous drag launches off the redline on slicks, open tracking and 25k a year commuter use, all the cylinders were showing the factory cross hatch hone marks and the Rods were like works of art... neat SVT logo still clearly visible on them all, even after all that heat!

Well rods either fail or bend or stay perfect..
My last car after 80K miles of abused at twice factory wHP my boost line on wga popped off boost went over 30psi.. Car ended up smoking drove like that for like about 5K miles till had money to rebuild. Turned out all that happened was ring compressed and crushed piston side that holds rings.. and 1 slightly bent rod.. everything else was find.. Block was great.. pistons looked good from top.. Engines came take some abused and keep going..
only in movies someone shoots hole in radiator and car instantly stops..
Cobra were beautiful cars and easy to make fast..
I am car lover.. I appreciate time and work put in a car no matter what band it is.. How boring would it be if everyone drove mustangs or camaros or a Civic Si

[Brakelate]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

but they told me if you do over 120mph you need roll cage.. what bullshit

Yeah, I always wanted to do a "Silver State" challenge sort of thing. Even on "Big Willow" -The fastest track in the west, I only see about 130 on the straight.

They have a neat program out here, the "Mojave Mile". A standing start, one mile blast down a huge runway up near me. Alot of Z06 Vette's, and especially Ford GT's show up.

My buddy goes out and runs it in his Cobra.

Problem is, as you say, this runway is built to land the Space Shuttle, is two or more miles long, and the equivalent of eight lanes wide and smooth as a baby's butt.

However, they make you work you're way up in increments after an insane amount of tech inspection and hassles.

Sure, a tire blowout could still cause a nasty roll over, or whatever. But, with these modern cars running so fast, it is easy to bust out of the first timer speed cap of like 155 or so.

They let the real exotic (expensive) GT's and Porsche / Vipers, etc run out without roll cages, but in his Cobra, they wouldn't give him an official time, because he ran to 174 or so with only a roll bar loop (in a hard top) with five point harnesses. He runs right with the strong running modded Z06's that show up, but he wants more, so he now has had to add a full cage and all sorts of things.

Not something most of us want to do in our "Street" cars.

Check out MojaveMile.com It is still a neat idea. I am just still a little gun shy of putting the pedal on the floor for a long time, though it is just like a mile long drag race (single car pass).

Out at El Mirage, you can just pay a Off Highway Vehicle fee (like $20) and go out and hit it. Problem is, the surface has it's traction issues, though it is wide open for over 2 miles. You just provide your own timing equipt. I was using a hand held GPS. That, and you are on you're own... no safety safari out there.

I may go back there one cool winter morning, when the air is cold and dry. They frown upon drifting on the lake bed surface as some cars with narrow tires dig in and raise ripples. Though on my 275's, it didn't leave a mark.

[Brakelate]

Originally Posted by GQ4Life

I appreciate time and work put in a car no matter what brand it is..

I completely agree.

Looks like you have quite the animal yourself there... is that Hp taken at the wheels?

I can't imagine these guys in Cobra's and you're Camaro putting down that kind of power. Hell, I couldn't hook up with 450 Rwhp, on 315 Nitto DR's!

600 or more is just nuts. I don't know that you could dial the chassis, or put enough rubber under these things to use it in anything other than a freeway roll.

Big Dyno numbers are addicting though, even if I get walked from a red light by a FWD 160 hp car. Especially on a cold, damp night. Sure, a block later, I'll go by like a flash, but in the old impromptu stoplight battles that last just through the intersection, I wonder if a AWD wagon of some sort isnt' the answer.

Those damn Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8's launch like nothing I've ever seen! Sure from a fast roll, you walk them hard. But, be careful should you come across one from a dig.

It's amazing the theoretical 60' times they could get... on any street surface.

You ever see one of those launch?

[flyby]

Mine is not a ZL-1, but I'll run your GT 500 for slips any time you want.

[maxpower5]

Originally Posted by flyby

Mine is not a ZL-1, but I'll run your GT 500 for slips any time you want.

anytime your in my neck of the woods. cant see myself going to NJ in the near future.