2010 Camaro SS - Video after E85 Tune

[Scourage]

Originally Posted by Milkman20

*EDIT: i actually did change the timing and noticed better throttle response and felt faster to me

[Milkman20]

also i want to put this out there, on the right column Chicago, IL is all the way at the bottom with the highest gas price, and is predicted to hit 5.00 by end of summer :(
http://gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx

[Milkman20]

local Illinois gas pump (I didnt take the pic)

[axis]

I'm glad you're happy with it but there is no appreciative reason to move to E85 on a NA engine unless you're running a high CR. Your gas mileage WILL go down and considerably. The boosted boyz love it though. They are making stupid power on it. Last I looked, they were having to run ~1.5x more injector, with E85, to get the same results as race gas.

[Alec]

Lot of misconception floating around. Since e85 is about 110 octane, you can run much leaner AFR's and much more timing without detonation. I've noticed E85 only requires about 30% more fuel on the camaro, not 50%. When I tuned Milkmans car, I kept the cruising AFR's a tad on the lean side to help the fuel economy loss. AFR's under WOT are around 12.5-12.7. Since we were tight on time, I was only able to advance timing about 5 degrees, plan on advancing it an additional 5 degrees when I get a chance. You can't run that much timing on pump gas with zero knock

Also, E85 IS corrosive. But the amounts are very insignificant, especially on the 5th gen Camaro. Take a look at a 2010 Camaro fuel tank and lines and then take a look and a Chevy flex fuel car's lines and tank. Not much different, huh? Actually, I am starting to believe GM has pretty much made all their fuel systems on their new cars ethanol compatible. I really wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 camaro is flex fuel! Then we can really see the differences, or lack of....

[JSC81]

Good read here on E85. Generally people change the injecters because you need more E85 volume to get the increased levels of HP not by much for the money spent imo. Which results in the crappy mpg. If my car was a drag car only and I didnt want to buy 13$ gallon race fuel I would go E85.

Edit: At Alec do you use wideband O2, reading to keep it from leaning to lean or rich? Saw something earlier about not being able to truely tune it properly w/o one. Not stabbing at you just really curious about this E85 deal. Its totally new to me and I find it interesting.

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f63/e8...98/index2.html

[Bell040]

Originally Posted by JSC81

Good read here on E85. Generally people change the injecters because you need more E85 volume to get the increased levels of HP not by much for the money spent imo. Which results in the crappy mpg. If my car was a drag car only and I didnt want to buy 13$ gallon race fuel I would go E85.

Edit: At Alec do you use wideband O2, reading to keep it from leaning to lean or rich? Saw something earlier about not being able to truely tune it properly w/o one. Not stabbing at you just really curious about this E85 deal. Its totally new to me and I find it interesting.

http://www.lxforums.com/board/f63/e8...98/index2.html

He is reporting 12.5 AFR, so he is running a wideband O2.

If you have easy access to E85 and you can ALWAYS run E85... tuning for E85 will make good power. It is also a good way to stick it to the oil companies.

But with an E85 tune, you can't run 93 octane anymore... E85 only or you will knock like crazy. If you take a drive to a place without E85, you may be in trouble.

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by Alec

Lot of misconception floating around. Since e85 is about 110 octane, you can run much leaner AFR's and much more timing without detonation. I've noticed E85 only requires about 30% more fuel on the camaro, not 50%. When I tuned Milkmans car, I kept the cruising AFR's a tad on the lean side to help the fuel economy loss. AFR's under WOT are around 12.5-12.7. Since we were tight on time, I was only able to advance timing about 5 degrees, plan on advancing it an additional 5 degrees when I get a chance. You can't run that much timing on pump gas with zero knock

Also, E85 IS corrosive. But the amounts are very insignificant, especially on the 5th gen Camaro. Take a look at a 2010 Camaro fuel tank and lines and then take a look and a Chevy flex fuel car's lines and tank. Not much different, huh? Actually, I am starting to believe GM has pretty much made all their fuel systems on their new cars ethanol compatible. I really wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 camaro is flex fuel! Then we can really see the differences, or lack of....

Would there be a benefit to running E85 with spray??

[Alec]

Originally Posted by Bell040

He is reporting 12.5 AFR, so he is running a wideband O2.

Actually, no, I didn't have access to a wideband so I used the Diablosport's built-in logging features which I found shockingly good. I tuned to .86 lambda according to the Diablosport which is roughly ~12.5 AFR on gasoline. The Camaro uses wideband O2 sensors from the factory.

[cab2g]

Originally Posted by Milkman20

also i want to put this out there, on the right column Chicago, IL is all the way at the bottom with the highest gas price, and is predicted to hit 5.00 by end of summer :(
http://gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx

looks like all the lake Michigan states are getting hosed except wisconsin. That probably means a refinery/distributor in the area is overcharging or charging more because of "reduced refinery capacity." Though I haven't seen any gas shortages yet... It is amazing that there is a 22% (almost $1) price difference between Greenville SC and Chicago IL. Especially when IL only has about 30 cents more in tax per gallon
http://www.api.org/statistics/fuelta...AP_MAY2011.pdf

Somebody is making a pretty penny in the supply chain.

[Bell040]

Originally Posted by Alec

Actually, no, I didn't have access to a wideband so I used the Diablosport's built-in logging features which I found shockingly good. I tuned to .86 lambda according to the Diablosport which is roughly ~12.5 AFR on gasoline. The Camaro uses wideband O2 sensors from the factory.

This is news to me. Can anyone else confirm this?

[DarkObsession]

Originally Posted by Alec

Lot of misconception floating around. Since e85 is about 110 octane, you can run much leaner AFR's and much more timing without detonation. I've noticed E85 only requires about 30% more fuel on the camaro, not 50%. When I tuned Milkmans car, I kept the cruising AFR's a tad on the lean side to help the fuel economy loss. AFR's under WOT are around 12.5-12.7. Since we were tight on time, I was only able to advance timing about 5 degrees, plan on advancing it an additional 5 degrees when I get a chance. You can't run that much timing on pump gas with zero knock

This actually has some misconceptions of its own. E85 is only about 95ish effective octane, not 110.

The real benefit is the cooling effect on the engine. It doesn't detonate as easily because of its cooling properties, not octane rating.

And I agree with some other points in this thread: unless you are running much higher compression or insane amounts of timing, E85 on NA doesn't make a ton of sense. If you are boosted, then yeah, you are going to see a pretty big gain.

[Alec]

Originally Posted by DarkObsession

This actually has some misconceptions of its own. E85 is only about 95ish effective octane, not 110.

The real benefit is the cooling effect on the engine. It doesn't detonate as easily because of its cooling properties, not octane rating.

True, but the exact octane is very misleading. If you factor in the cooling effect from the evaporation properties, the octane is much closer to 110.

[John_C]

@MilkMan20

Would you sharing your HP Tuners tune file with me so I can get a base tune to start from?