Is the OLD GM thinking coming back?

[kbui]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

I'm not sure how you can call them matching (or even slightly exceeding - either way making it a drivers' race) the Camaro's performance "futile."

I think he was referring to sales.
You know it's a good design, when the competition is constantly changing and improving to catch up. With that said, Chevy should really start a diet plan for these pony/muscle cars. You can do wonder with the current drive train if you can lose a few hundred pounds. I know it's not easy since the Camaro was based on the sedan platform, but I am pretty sure the overall mass of the structural parts can be reduced and still meet the crash/safety requirement. However, with just a few years left for this generation, it's probably not worth the investment in the retooling. Given the current constraints, the easiest direction is to give the buyers CONTENT DELETE options for a complete car instead of just BIW and build your own. A guy can wish, right ?

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Supercamaro64

i completely agree with the OP. Just because we win on paper, in sales AND in hp, doesnt mean we actually win. They need to get a slight power increase in the SS. the v6 is getting a power/economy increase, which is great. but ford came out with the new 5.0, which basically kicks our @$$. dodge has the new 392 challenger, which i havent seen any numbers for yet, but im sure will be impressive. we need to keep up. as much as i dislike mustangs/ford, and HATE to say this... its a faster car. which sucks lol. im just saying, competition makes better cars for everyone, so why not stay competitive and get a little more hp in the beast that is the SS? just MO

Let's see the Camaro is kicking the Mustang's a$$ in sales. Why is the 5.0 thought to be faster? Well, it has about 250lbs less wait. It is NOT more powerful. They are both capable of running in the 12's. I don't know where you get the 5.0 kicks the SS's a$$. It's just nonsense. The previous GT was out for 6 years before it got a power increase. 2012 will be year 3 for crying out loud. Believe me GM wll answer, but it's just not that Ford has really taken any lead, because they did not. 5.0 is a nice step up for Ford, but it just hasn't panned out like they wanted. SS is still selling more. Be patient, you will see great stuff down the road.

[liquidsmoke]

The old GM never left, nor did there thinking.

The honest reason why the camaro is out selling the mustang is purely based on how sexy the camaro looks. Not HP or anything else. The exterior of this car is hands down one of the meanest cars on the road, that's why it still gets head turns, finger pointing, thumbs up ect and in some cases from people who have cars that cost 3 times as much as a camaro. And the Transformers movies put the car up front and center so everyone can see just how sexy the car is and let you bring a piece of that movie magic right to your driveway.
The mustang is stale, so is the vette and both these models havnt changed much exterior wise is years. This is why they are boring to the average person. No one cares when a stang or vette drives by, no one is pointing or anything. Not everyone cares about HP or being the fastest, actually the majority of the population does not care about that at all. They want a good car with decent performance and they want it to look good. The camaro delivers that in spades and at a decent price so it's no wonder it's leading sales.

The real question in my eyes is can GM manage to not **** this car up in the long run.
GM makes only one car that I would buy, the camaro and I hope they didn't just get lucky. When the 6 gen comes out I guess we will know.
I'm not a GM or ford fanboy and really could care less about either companies bottom line. Make a car that appeals to me and I'll buy it. I love cars, not brands.

[gm2376]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

See, thats old GM thinking coming thru #3...
They corrected the interior, like it should have came from day one. changes to suspension which was needed. Sure lets rest on the 426hp because its good enough, thats just it. It's good enough!! We have to be BETTER!!
Don't wait to improve the 426 because we are neck and neck with the 5.0, advance it, let them answer to us!!

=bobby

and what when it hits a gas guzzler tax.....and people start to shy away from it all together?

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by liquidsmoke

... Not everyone cares about HP or being the fastest, actually the majority of the population does not care about that at all. They want a good car with decent performance and they want it to look good. The camaro delivers that in spades and at a decent price so it's no wonder it's leading sales...

What sells more? A car with pretty good performance and killer looks, or a car with fantastic performance and OK looks?

Come on...you all know the answer

[AZCamaroFan]

i agree with the looks point. The Camaro is just hotter. don't really agree about the Corvette. The sales of it dropped in half when the recession hit, and the Camaro also went on sale.

[sprtplt]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

i agree with the looks point. The Camaro is just hotter. don't really agree about the Corvette. The sales of it dropped in half when the recession hit, and the Camaro also went on sale.

C6 Corvettes have been invisible for some time. Not only does no one notice them or care, they suffer the indignity of being considered an old mans car.

Camaros (new, and I suppose first gens) still get noticed.

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by sprtplt

C6 Corvettes have been invisible for some time. Not only does no one notice them or care, they suffer the indignity of being considered an old mans car.

Camaros (new, and I suppose first gens) still get noticed.

That's all I ever see in vettes and I have yet to ever in my life see one go over 50mph.

Agree with the 1st gen comment also. I have a hard time finding any of the other gens appealing visually. I'm actually glad the 4th gens died.

[TheClassicCarKid]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I have been reading so many articles lately where the Camaro is killing the Stang in sales which is GREAT of course!!

One thing that bothers me is, The OLD GM, despite being the sales leader would add a color or add stickers to a car to "keep it going".

Then I say to myself, where is the HP increase for 2012 SS?
No increase? Oh, they added the stickers to the 45th anny model.

I guess what I'm trying to say is............
GM dont rest because you have the sales lead. Make the product better. The Stang came out with the 5.0 you should have already answered for that and you didn't. Don't let the car go stale.

If you WAIT for sales to slip........... It's too late...
=Bobby

The 5.0 was Ford catching up to the LS3 in the engine department. The Camaro doesn't need a new engine at this point.

But what about the interior update?
The suspension upgrade?
The ZL1?

More horsepower is pretty far down on the list of things the Camaro needed IMO, I think Chevrolet is acting swiftly to address weak areas of the car.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by sprtplt

C6 Corvettes have been invisible for some time. Not only does no one notice them or care, they suffer the indignity of being considered an old mans car.

Camaros (new, and I suppose first gens) still get noticed.

that's because of their price. but stand next to one and it's still hot

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

The 5.0 was Ford catching up to the LS3 in the engine department. The Camaro doesn't need a new engine at this point.

But what about the interior update?
The suspension upgrade?
The ZL1?

More horsepower is pretty far down on the list of things the Camaro needed IMO, I think Chevrolet is acting swiftly to address weak areas of the car.

Didn't say the LS3 should be replaced just a 20 or so HP tweak from the factory. No need to reinvent the wheel, just keep things going and not getting stale. when do they tweak it? when sales dip? Thats old GM thinking. Lets be proactive, keep kicking them with improvements while they are down.
-bobby

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Didn't say the LS3 should be replaced just a 20 or so HP tweak from the factory. No need to reinvent the wheel, just keep things going and not getting stale. when do they tweak it? when sales dip? Thats old GM thinking. Lets be proactive, keep kicking them with improvements while they are down.
-bobby

Are you blind to the improvements GM has made to this car since launch or do you just choose to ignore them to support your opinion?

[cmore]

Originally Posted by sprtplt

The "old" GM never left, they simply shafted the legitimate debt holders and shareholders, and pronounced do-over.

[cmore]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Didn't they pump up the V6 and keep econ the same?

No, they re-rated it.