Vararam and tune

[GoPaul]

The 13hp tune had been installed for around 400 miles so should have been fully 'learned', the first 2 dynos were with that 13hp tune, they are run files 1304 and 1305 so yep the 13hp tune only gave me a return of 241hp. I then went back to the stock tune, let the car idle for 10 mins and dyno'd again this time I got 253 (run files 1306 and 1307) I may have got more HP after fully relearning the stock tune but the conclusion I am making is that I need a new tune written around the vararam as currently they aren't playing nicely together :(

[bmorecam]

So all of them was done with vr installed but the first 2 is with the 13hp tune and the second 2 is with stock tune right?? You need to have your tune readjusted to work with vr intake. I thought my case might be isolated but it does not look that way. It almost look as tho you might of have lost power with vr installed. 237 and 241 even corrected seem way low with vr intake and tune.
Reload the 13hp tune and go through the learning process again then send vince your result with your datalog. Once we have our tune readjusted we should be good to go.

[GoPaul]

Yep you got it. Do you think it is also worth datalogging the stock tune and vararam?

Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad I'm not alone

[bmorecam]

The vr intake has been R&D'ed around a stock vehicle so I can understand why for us with a tune might only see small gains to no gains to even losing power. Vince is already aware of this so we should be fine. Who knows, once we get our tune in order for this intake we might even see bigger gains than what a stock car might see.

I dont think there's no need to datalog a stock tune unless its something within the stock data that you want to see, but you can't see the data anyway lol. Just datalog the 13hp tune with vr and explain to vince about today's result. It look like you actually lost power.

I bet your butt dyno told you something different tho didnt it?

I always tell peoples how important it is to monitor your vehicle data if you are modded and especially if you are tuned. I would never have known how far off my fuel trim was if I didnt monitor my car's ecm.

I wonder if rcat was able to find out what his fuel trim look like. So is it just us 3 with a tune and vr? you, me, and rcat??

[rolnslo]

GoPaul -

After you left we threw my car on the ARD dyno and all I can say is I'm not entirely sure either one of us got accurate results on our runs. Weather conditions for mine were similar to your final run (92* @ 44% humidity) and I only pulled 249hp on 87 octane in 4th. Granted, on that particular dyno, I pulled 244hp on 87 octane back in March '11, on the stock intake but the temps were 15* cooler that day. IAT reading at the beginning of the pull was 125*, which is damn hot.

I'm going to go pester Vararam next week and see if we can get a final baseline set up at the same shop (England Green) where we did the previous prototypes runs. They don't use a DynoJet 224x like ARD but instead have a Land and Sea Dyno which can be set up for a simulated road load condition. The Land and Sea Dyno uses an absorption / eddy current dyno design vs. the inertial roller design that the DynoJet 224x uses.

Guess we'll see...

I hope that Trifecta is able to get your tune straightened out. That was weird to watch you gain 12hp by going back to the stock tune.

[Beauwulf]

I know you guys understand that your getting more (and denser) air from the VR than before. That means there will be a difference from your previous tune. I can also tell you that IAT heat will kill your HP faster than you think! On the track, I can see 4-5 tenths difference if the IAT goes from 90-125 F. That's about 15-20HP worth...

Any intake that uses a plastic tube will hold more heat than an aluminum one. Check your IAT temps with those runs and I'm sure you'll see a correlation.

Just an FYI... it usually take 40 miles and 2-3 key strokes (ignition on/off) for a change in tune to be fully "learned" by this ECU. Sitting at idle won't do it.

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by Beauwulf

I know you guys understand that your getting more (and denser) air from the VR than before. That means there will be a difference from your previous tune. I can also tell you that IAT heat will kill your HP faster than you think! On the track, I can see 4-5 tenths difference if the IAT goes from 90-125 F. That's about 15-20HP worth...

Any intake that uses a plastic tube will hold more heat than an aluminum one. Check your IAT temps with those runs and I'm sure you'll see a correlation.

Just an FYI... it usually take 40 miles and 2-3 key strokes (ignition on/off) for a change in tune to be fully "learned" by this ECU. Sitting at idle won't do it.

I can tell you this much.. every dyno run I did at SRT been with my IAT up in the 100+ especially with stock intake where heat soak is enormous.

So if is possible to lose up to 15-20hp than does that mean my last dyno was really 300+??

It can be real interesting and at the same time a real headache dealing with this dyno numbers im bout to change my venue to a real 1/4 mile track as soon as we get out of this unusual heatwave again in the 100's

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

..im bout to change my venue to a real 1/4 mile track...

This where all of the mods really pay off anyhow.

Hmm, just had a great business idea...side by side dyno racing! The one with the highest HP number by the end of the simulated 1/4 wins! To make if fair and consistent, I'll have to have it inside a completely climate controlled building (50*, 0% humidity, wind tunnel capacity fans matched to the MPH speed of the cars on the dyno), which is something you'll rarely see at a shop with a dyno....hmmm, anyone have some extra cash laying around they don't need?

[KMPrenger]

So many factors in play here...did the heat kill the run? Did the dyno read low? Does the new VR really not play well with the 13HP tune from a stock car? (which I'd say ...no and a tweak to the tune is more than likely needed)

Sure is interesting stuff though, and I sure hope you guys find the answers.

[bmorecam]

I have a question.. what is the difference between a tuned intake and non tuned intake for the SS version?

[KMPrenger]

non-tuned would mean it is designed to run best with a non-tuned car. Basically like the V6 version was made to run best with an otherwise stock car.

The tuned version is made to be ran with tuned cars because it probably flows so much air(or soemthing like that) that it would never run right on a stock car...so a tune is needed to be adjusted for this intake. The versions that require a tune should also give larger gains.

[rolnslo]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

non-tuned would mean it is designed to run best with a non-tuned car. Basically like the V6 version was made to run best with an otherwise stock car.

The tuned version is made to be ran with tuned cars because it probably flows so much air(or soemthing like that) that it would never run right on a stock car...so a tune is needed. The versions that require a tune should also give larger gains.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

The two intakes have slightly different tail section designs. The tune model is optimized for flowing more air and scales the MAF sensor Mhz differently due to placement of the MAF sensor. The tune intake must be tuned immediately because the stock tune can't be adjusted enough by the ECM to deal with the airflow changes that the MAF is reading.

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

non-tuned would mean it is designed to run best with a non-tuned car. Basically like the V6 version was made to run best with an otherwise stock car.

The tuned version is made to be ran with tuned cars because it probably flows so much air(or soemthing like that) that it would never run right on a stock car...so a tune is needed to be adjusted for this intake. The versions that require a tune should also give larger gains.

prenger, I know that partlol

I mean, does it have any physical difference like the tuned version have bigger housing or something?

Also, I think gopaul's stock number should be somewhere in the 240 range since he dynoed 257 with just injen last year, and we know injen has a gain of somewhere in the 16-17 range.

Does ARD happen to have dynojet 248x? Its defenitely a low reading dynojet especially gopaul having a M6, but either way.. what he dynoed today with vr is not good at all.

I think vince is braining this out right now. I would have my updated tune by now but nothing yet and he had my datalog since yesterday morning.

[bmorecam]

nevermind.. got it.