C6 Z06 sheds it's F1 Goodyears along with 20 seconds at the "Ring"

[syr74]

The only problems I have with Ring times in general is that.....

1: .....there exists no governing body to determine who is playing by what rules and not every manufacturer plays at all. And, even when they do, how seriously they take knocking down the fastest possible time varies.

2: .....I think the average speed is too high to give a good indicator of how the car is going to perform in the vast majority of owner's hands, even at the typical racetrack. The Ring finds cars capable of the same spending time well into triple digit speeds for a relatively large percentage of your trip around the circuit. Even most guys who get track time in their cars won't see speeds that high for any length of time, if ever, at most tracks in the U.S. It made sense to me when Porsche did it because their cars were, on occasion, genuinely driven at those speeds by enthusiasts in Germany at the time (the Autobahn is so crowded now things have changed somewhat) Then Nissan decided they wanted to show how great the GTR was by running it against the Porsche times, and then other manufacturers started to play.

I just don't get the fascination. Of course, an increasing number of manufacturers are running the Ring now. Even Ford has gotten into the act of late.......so it goes.

[91Z28350]

While the points you mention are completely valid, it at least shows what these cars can do when driven at 10/10ths, and using the same track (a known quantity) removes at least one variable when trying to compare. In a perfect world, a talented driver would pick a production version of each car completely at random, drive them all in identical conditions and be completely versant in the dynamics of each vehicle.

Also, it looks cool to watch the videos!

[VelocityC6]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

it is. Look at the track times. This is the $100,000 ($98,000) Z07 version. Hardly cheap. Still surprised a $4x,000 car can give it a run for its money!!!

What method did Ford use to test the Boss 302 at the ring?

Key point to remember is GM used a slower testing method back in 2005.....yeah 6 yrs ago.....and ran the Z06 from a stop.

The current widely accepted method is to do flying laps which GM does now for all it's tested cars.

Regardless, if you want to compare apples to apples you'll slot the new BOSS 302 vs the current Z06. The BOSS gets destroyed and left for dead that's a fact, the Z06 costs more.....you get what you pay for, speed costs money.

The bottom line is that it shows how much the Z06 had "left in the tank." I remember how astonished everyone is about the chasis tuning on the Boss 302, how close it is to a Z06.....with these new results you can get a picture of just how far ahead GM truely is with the C6 Corvette.....not as close as you might have hoped.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

it is. Look at the track times. This is the $100,000 ($98,000) Z07 version. Hardly cheap. Still surprised a $4x,000 car can give it a run for its money!!!

I'll believe it when the two are run on the same track, on the same day, and driven by if not the same driver then at least equally skilled drivers, and they're shown to be within say half a second on a normal sized road course. Then I'll believe that the two are near equals.

Until then, I'll refuse to believe that the Boss is just as fast as the Z06 when it gives up 60 hp, 450 lbs, about an inch of rubber on all 4 corners, and umpteen different little things that the Z06 has in its favour. The laws of physics don't allow for that to happen unless there is a bunch of technology helping you out (such as with the GTR).

Originally Posted by syr74

The only problems I have with Ring times in general is that.....

1: .....there exists no governing body to determine who is playing by what rules and not every manufacturer plays at all. And, even when they do, how seriously they take knocking down the fastest possible time varies.

2: .....I think the average speed is too high to give a good indicator of how the car is going to perform in the vast majority of owner's hands, even at the typical racetrack. The Ring finds cars capable of the same spending time well into triple digit speeds for a relatively large percentage of your trip around the circuit. Even most guys who get track time in their cars won't see speeds that high for any length of time, if ever, at most tracks in the U.S. It made sense to me when Porsche did it because their cars were, on occasion, genuinely driven at those speeds by enthusiasts in Germany at the time (the Autobahn is so crowded now things have changed somewhat) Then Nissan decided they wanted to show how great the GTR was by running it against the Porsche times, and then other manufacturers started to play.

I just don't get the fascination. Of course, an increasing number of manufacturers are running the Ring now. Even Ford has gotten into the act of late.......so it goes.

When an OEM like GM takes a car to the Nurburgring, they don't do it for bragging rights, at least not exclusively. Its done to tune the ride & handling of the car because there is no other single place in the world where they can gather as much data as they can at the 'ring. Sure they like to post the best time that they got, but thats not the real reason they spend all the money to fly cars & engineers out there.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

When an OEM like GM takes a car to the Nurburgring, they don't do it for bragging rights, at least not exclusively. Its done to tune the ride & handling of the car because there is no other single place in the world where they can gather as much data as they can at the 'ring. Sure they like to post the best time that they got, but thats not the real reason they spend all the money to fly cars & engineers out there.

It's not the only reason, but in more than a few cases I'm willing to bet it is the reason they are conducting those tests there rather than using a couple of smaller tracks closer to 'home'. Ford is the perfect example. Previously they didn't make a lot of use of the Ring, but the upcoming 2013 GT500 is being tested there right now. My money says that the change of test track venue wasn't because of any mythical properties at the Ring. Rather, it was the fact that Ford typically does Euro testing on high end Mustang anyway which puts them in the vicinity with the right hardware, throw in the 'image' the Ring brings to the table and it's really, really cheap advertising that the media/internet largely does for you while you work sorting out the car.

What method did Ford use to test the Boss 302 at the ring

Ford didn't test the Boss at the Ring, as far as I am aware the new GT500 will be the first American market, Ford model heavily tested at the Ring.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by syr74

It's not the only reason, but in more than a few cases I'm willing to bet it is the reason they are conducting those tests there rather than using a couple of smaller tracks closer to 'home'. Ford is the perfect example. Previously they didn't make a lot of use of the Ring, but the upcoming 2013 GT500 is being tested there right now. My money says that the change of test track venue wasn't because of any mythical properties at the Ring. Rather, it was the fact that Ford typically does Euro testing on high end Mustang anyway which puts them in the vicinity with the right hardware, throw in the 'image' the Ring brings to the table and it's really, really cheap advertising that the media/internet largely does for you while you work sorting out the car.



Ford didn't test the Boss at the Ring, as far as I am aware the new GT500 will be the first American market, Ford model heavily tested at the Ring.

Sure, they could go to multiple tracks for testing, but renting out several tracks costs more than simply going to the 'ring.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Sure, they could go to multiple tracks for testing, but renting out several tracks costs more than simply going to the 'ring.

Yeah, but I think the tracks you will find stateside will give you a better indication of how a car really stacks up once the owner has it in their hands. In the end my big issue with the Ring is the super high average speeds you see cars running there, it skews the numbers in favor of cars with a lot of top end which means folks are likely to be surprised at the results they see at the vast majority of tracks which typically don't see such high average speeds.

The old 289 and 427 Cobra's were the perfect example, their brick-like aerodynamics meant they didn't have much to offer past the 150mph mark, which made them terrible performers at the Ring. On the vast majority of tracks in the US however, the Cobra was going to take the same cars that had recently left it for dead at the Ring and have it's way with them more often than not.

The emphasis on really high speeds is just exagerated at the Ring IMO. And for me, that makes it a less than stellar testbed if the point is to find out how a car stacks up to other cars. From a manufacturer's perspective it's easy to see how those high speeds add stress to the mechnicals and reveal any issues you may with with brake cooling, etc., so I do get the appeal to the automakers as a developmental testbed. I just don't completely get the emphasis on times because there are factors at work there which don't really apply as across the board as some might think.

[Sawyer]

I want a Z06. That is all.

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I'll believe it when the two are run on the same track, on the same day, and driven by if not the same driver then at least equally skilled drivers, and they're shown to be within say half a second on a normal sized road course. Then I'll believe that the two are near equals.

Until then, I'll refuse to believe that the Boss is just as fast as the Z06 when it gives up 60 hp, 450 lbs, about an inch of rubber on all 4 corners, and umpteen different little things that the Z06 has in its favour. The laws of physics don't allow for that to happen unless there is a bunch of technology helping you out (such as with the GTR).

If you slap racing rubber on both cars I would guess the Z06 would outperform the Boss by an even greater margin. The Z06 has more power and is at least 350 lbs lighter, etc, so I have to agree with you on the laws of physics statement.
Damn all this Z06 talk has me wanting one again!! Lol

[Camaroman_99]

I would definitely like to have a Z06 !

[Rock36]

Amazing times, and I love that the Z06 finally shaved off more time from the ring.

There is one difference though. The Z07 did a flying lap run vice a standing start for the old Z06. Most car companies do a flying lap, and doing a standing start run is putting yourself at a disadvantage when trying to compare to other manufacturer's cars.

Not to take anything away from the new time and the Z07, but it just shows that the old Z06 could have probably done it in the 7:3X range, which I have long suspected.

Either way not bad for some pretty basic suspension upgrades and some new tires.

[LOWDOWN]

Makes you wonder what a "Z/28" with an LS7 would do against an LSA'd ZL1 on comparable rubber...

[bob vogel]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

If you slap racing rubber on both cars I would guess the Z06 would outperform the Boss by an even greater margin. The Z06 has more power and is at least 350 lbs lighter, etc, so I have to agree with you on the laws of physics statement.
Damn all this Z06 talk has me wanting one again!! Lol

+1. i'm getting the bug. damn . maybe its time to let my camaro go to a new home?