My Camaro went home to Oshawa to die......

[suplex]

Originally Posted by Moorepheus

All these modded Camaro dying. Maybe these engines were not designed to be modded at all. I mean, every other day, we are hearing about these modded Comaros dying. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against modding, I don't do it personally myself, it is just an observation.

Just wonder, anyone have same thing happen to themselves in an UNMODDED Camaro?

Good luck with fixing it, hope you are on the road soon.

In my personal opinion, the Camaro engine is such a machine I wouldn't dare touch it to try to make it...better.

I have the V6 (1LT) and engine mods aren't even in my thought process. I do some things to it though, but they are all cosmetic. I got custom floor mats that have a chevy bowtie and the word "camaro" on them (with a yellow trim border on the floor mat). I'll probably get window tinting on the back window and the corner windows someday. I have seat-belt pads (for over your shoulder) that are yellow with the word "camaro" written in black on them, and someday I will look into having my door inserts changed to yellow like they would probably have been if I got the RS package.

I like to do stuff like that a little at a time, so I change slight things over the years, but the engine is perfect to me AS IS.

Sorry to hear about people in here having problems though, they have the right to do what they want with what they own.

[getarz4u15ster]

Originally Posted by garcmol

I agree with everything about pin depth (possibly) being the root cause of this due to the bolt not being torqued to the gear, rather the pin.

However, how many timing gear variations are out there and what are the varying thicknesses of them? Wouldn't this (cam pin) been be built that long and, depending on the timing gear thickness, ground down to recess behind the bolt? I would think a manufacturer of camshafts would do this so it could be used in different applications. I'm not trying to bash the installer, but I would think that would be a clearance that would have been checked. If it protrudes then grind it down to sit flush or recessed a bit. No? Am I way off here?

No you are absolutely right!! And I would say that the installer could have checked that (may have even). However the idea relying on 1 single bolt as the lynch pin in the entire valve train rotating assembly.. is super scary to me... if there were one thing Gm could have done better on the LS3... it would have been that.. I mean supposedly they stopped putting three bolt cams in, in 2007.. but some 2008's have them too... so i don't know what the deal is there... just poor design in my opinion.. other than that.. the motor is near flawless.

[SC2150]

We check the pin depth...and I assumed every one else does as well. Very simple and obvious if it protrudes.

On the single blot, I agree that if the pin did protrude then the bolt will not hold as designed....but if correct we have single bolt cams on Ford mod motors holding 800-900 plus HP with never an issue....but that is an overhead cam design. On the Maseratti we have in the shop the cams are also single bolt and NO dowel pin....and the engine I am rebuilding right now is the same basic one used at Lemans in the day (early 60's).

I think most are missing the point here. Modifying and engine is not a simple "buy the part and bolt it on", these things are easy and obvious to check for and assemble correctly if you are an experianced engine builder so the failures I have followed to date (we have had zero....and we build race & performance engines all the time from scratch) have all appeared to be assemble error and not something I would blame on Comp or any cam manufacturer. The various timing chain/gear kits are all different (the after market ones) and it is standard to inspect fit , degree the cam, and check for proper PTV clearance. As stated before, there are far to many shops popping up that are taking on motor work w/out the properly trained engine builders in house. Many are "bolt on" techs. So I stand by my staement that the single bolt is fine and safe if installed properly. Make a mistake in ANY area of engine assy and you have catastrophic results.

[Nvincent4708]

Originally Posted by SC2150

We check the pin depth...and I assumed every one else does as well. Very simple and obvious if it protrudes.

On the single blot, I agree that if the pin did protrude then the bolt will not hold as designed....but if correct we have single bolt cams on Ford mod motors holding 800-900 plus HP with never an issue....but that is an overhead cam design. On the Maseratti we have in the shop the cams are also single bolt and NO dowel pin....and the engine I am rebuilding right now is the same basic one used at Lemans in the day (early 60's).

I think most are missing the point here. Modifying and engine is not a simple "buy the part and bolt it on", these things are easy and obvious to check for and assemble correctly if you are an experianced engine builder so the failures I have followed to date (we have had zero....and we build race & performance engines all the time from scratch) have all appeared to be assemble error and not something I would blame on Comp or any cam manufacturer. The various timing chain/gear kits are all different (the after market ones) and it is standard to inspect fit , degree the cam, and check for proper PTV clearance. As stated before, there are far to many shops popping up that are taking on motor work w/out the properly trained engine builders in house. Many are "bolt on" techs. So I stand by my staement that the single bolt is fine and safe if installed properly. Make a mistake in ANY area of engine assy and you have catastrophic results.

This is why I learned from my dad. haha.. Could use a milling machine / cnc. taught me how to build engines that could spin to 9k. It's just a matter of me having the money to product those results.

Either way. Hugger, did you figure out what motor you're going with? Hopefully with a decent pricetag.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Russell James

I think it's safe to say Comp Cams has a quality control issue. And if an installer is not watching out for that defect, this could happen.

When you see the same thing multiple times on the web sites, plus consider how many grenaded their engine and never really dug into the cause... and how many aren't members of web sites... who knows how many have been burned by this problem.

"Caution - Comp Cams single bolt cams, check the pin depth in the cam gear!" would be a good sticky thread in the engine section.

Yup, the I agree with ya....it should be a sticky, with a link to this thread as proof!

Originally Posted by getarz4u15ster

agree with your suggestion!

Originally Posted by Nvincent4708

After seeing this.. I will never buy a single bolt cam

Me either....3 bolt all the way from here forward.

Originally Posted by garcmol

I agree with everything about pin depth (possibly) being the root cause of this due to the bolt not being torqued to the gear, rather the pin.

However, how many timing gear variations are out there and what are the varying thicknesses of them? Wouldn't this (cam pin) been be built that long and, depending on the timing gear thickness, ground down to recess behind the bolt? I would think a manufacturer of camshafts would do this so it could be used in different applications. I'm not trying to bash the installer, but I would think that would be a clearance that would have been checked. If it protrudes then grind it down to sit flush or recessed a bit. No? Am I way off here?

Nope you're right on the mark...the pin can be knocked back into the cam a bit...

Originally Posted by suplex

In my personal opinion, the Camaro engine is such a machine I wouldn't dare touch it to try to make it...better.

I have the V6 (1LT) and engine mods aren't even in my thought process. I do some things to it though, but they are all cosmetic. I got custom floor mats that have a chevy bowtie and the word "camaro" on them (with a yellow trim border on the floor mat). I'll probably get window tinting on the back window and the corner windows someday. I have seat-belt pads (for over your shoulder) that are yellow with the word "camaro" written in black on them, and someday I will look into having my door inserts changed to yellow like they would probably have been if I got the RS package.

I like to do stuff like that a little at a time, so I change slight things over the years, but the engine is perfect to me AS IS.

Sorry to hear about people in here having problems though, they have the right to do what they want with what they own.

I have never, nor will ever leave any of my cars as is....it's a sickness.

Originally Posted by getarz4u15ster

No you are absolutely right!! And I would say that the installer could have checked that (may have even). However the idea relying on 1 single bolt as the lynch pin in the entire valve train rotating assembly.. is super scary to me... if there were one thing Gm could have done better on the LS3... it would have been that.. I mean supposedly they stopped putting three bolt cams in, in 2007.. but some 2008's have them too... so i don't know what the deal is there... just poor design in my opinion.. other than that.. the motor is near flawless.

Yup, although I'm starting to buy into the fact some of the hardware holding things together isn't the best either..

Originally Posted by SC2150

We check the pin depth...and I assumed every one else does as well. Very simple and obvious if it protrudes.

On the single blot, I agree that if the pin did protrude then the bolt will not hold as designed....but if correct we have single bolt cams on Ford mod motors holding 800-900 plus HP with never an issue....but that is an overhead cam design. On the Maseratti we have in the shop the cams are also single bolt and NO dowel pin....and the engine I am rebuilding right now is the same basic one used at Lemans in the day (early 60's).

I think most are missing the point here. Modifying and engine is not a simple "buy the part and bolt it on", these things are easy and obvious to check for and assemble correctly if you are an experianced engine builder so the failures I have followed to date (we have had zero....and we build race & performance engines all the time from scratch) have all appeared to be assemble error and not something I would blame on Comp or any cam manufacturer. The various timing chain/gear kits are all different (the after market ones) and it is standard to inspect fit , degree the cam, and check for proper PTV clearance. As stated before, there are far to many shops popping up that are taking on motor work w/out the properly trained engine builders in house. Many are "bolt on" techs. So I stand by my staement that the single bolt is fine and safe if installed properly. Make a mistake in ANY area of engine assy and you have catastrophic results.

This last paragraph in this post is pure gold!!!! LISTEN TO THE MAN!

Originally Posted by Nvincent4708

This is why I learned from my dad. haha.. Could use a milling machine / cnc. taught me how to build engines that could spin to 9k. It's just a matter of me having the money to product those results.

Either way. Hugger, did you figure out what motor you're going with? Hopefully with a decent pricetag.

I did....I'm dropping a crate LS3 in it. I'm going to drive that engine as is until the warranty period expires, then throw another cam in it.

The shop who did the install is working with me on a resolution to what happened as well. Nothing earth shattering, but every little bit helps.

[Nvincent4708]

any bit helps.. i've totalled roughly 800 off of parts from my old engine.. recooping my losses and paying the lsx off. headers here i come.

[PAUL SS]

A question. 55 ft lbs is not a ton of torque on a bolt. My question is how and when is the bolt torqued down? When it is in the engine? If so what holds the cam and gear from rotating, the timing chain?

[SC2150]

Nvincent, you are lucky to have had a Dad pass that along. Exactley how I got my start. It's a lost art though, very rare that Father/Son talents are passed down anymore....and the tech schools teach parts changing as that is the efficient way for a dealer service dept to get cars in & out.

My grandfather was a mechanic all his life, from the 1920's to the 80's when he retired and my Dad was a stockcar driver in the 50's.

You have knowledge that is hard to be taught even today unless at a specialty school.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by SC2150

It's a lost art though, very rare that Father/Son talents are passed down anymore....

Ron Reagan Senior is facepalming from the grave.

But, I'm doing my best to do the same to my son. (at least the limited stuff that I know) but he just doesn't seem interested. :(

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by PAUL SS

A question. 55 ft lbs is not a ton of torque on a bolt. My question is how and when is the bolt torqued down? When it is in the engine? If so what holds the cam and gear from rotating, the timing chain?

Yes, when in the engine. You need two tools, an angle meter and a flywheel holding tool. You tq to 55 lb ft then an additional 50 degrees. Plus the bolt has preapplied locking compound on it. It will be plenty tight if the procedure is followed.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Russell James

Yes, when in the engine. You need two tools, an angle meter and a flywheel holding tool. You tq to 55 lb ft then an additional 50 degrees. Plus the bolt has preapplied locking compound on it. It will be plenty tight if the procedure is followed.

Good stuff. I wondered the same thing. Thanks for the info. I guessed pretty much right. But didn't know there was a special flywheel tool. I was picturing wedging something up in there. LOL

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by SC2150

We check the pin depth...and I assumed every one else does as well. Very simple and obvious if it protrudes.

On the single blot, I agree that if the pin did protrude then the bolt will not hold as designed....but if correct we have single bolt cams on Ford mod motors holding 800-900 plus HP with never an issue....but that is an overhead cam design. On the Maseratti we have in the shop the cams are also single bolt and NO dowel pin....and the engine I am rebuilding right now is the same basic one used at Lemans in the day (early 60's).

I think most are missing the point here. Modifying and engine is not a simple "buy the part and bolt it on", these things are easy and obvious to check for and assemble correctly if you are an experianced engine builder so the failures I have followed to date (we have had zero....and we build race & performance engines all the time from scratch) have all appeared to be assemble error and not something I would blame on Comp or any cam manufacturer. The various timing chain/gear kits are all different (the after market ones) and it is standard to inspect fit , degree the cam, and check for proper PTV clearance. As stated before, there are far to many shops popping up that are taking on motor work w/out the properly trained engine builders in house. Many are "bolt on" techs. So I stand by my staement that the single bolt is fine and safe if installed properly. Make a mistake in ANY area of engine assy and you have catastrophic results.

Tell em' bro'.
Lot's of people talking about people mod'ding and aftermarket parts not as good as GM, losing warranty, et al.

Buy, good parts, and ensure only the best trained "engine builders" assemble your engine, and everything will work out just fine. And, just like anything else the risks can be rewarding or not.
Hopefully; OP get's new LS3 engine and back on track.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Russell James

Yes, when in the engine. You need two tools, an angle meter and a flywheel holding tool. You tq to 55 lb ft then an additional 50 degrees. Plus the bolt has preapplied locking compound on it. It will be plenty tight if the procedure is followed.

With regards to the locking compound....does any of it look to be present on this bolt or camshaft threads?

[Toasty]

Hard to see the threads in the cam, Id say... but there's some greyish-whiteish stuff at about the right spot on the threads of the bolt...