Rumor: SAE testing complete, numbers "north of 570 HP"

[slick rick]

Originally Posted by SS-screamer

? Don't you SAE re-certify only when something in the engine has been changed. Why go about that whole process and change something about the engine for only a few horses? I say it's big like 595-598 HP and wouldn't be surprised if it was "north" of 600.

Didn't they re-certify the LLT in the Camaro which resulted in 312? (from 304 in the CTS)

[detltu]

I was going to be happy with anything north of 550. North of 570 will make me really happy. I am just glad that there is finally some new stuff coming out. I can't wait.

[DanSS24]

Well, as the sneak peak video a few months back saying, "We're not going to meet your expectations"... "We're going to exceed them", I expect more than the CTS-V but less than the ZR1. So I am expecting 580hp Chevy...are you going to exceed this? Hmmm

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by REVENGE

Why is it some of insist on underrating the power this car will have? First you insisted that it will have less power than the CTS V and that made no sense. Now you are saying GM will keep the power below 600hp when Ford is going to bump the GT500 north of 600hp. That too makes no sense unless GM does not want to beat Ford.

I don't know of anyone that said it would have less power than the CTS-V. From the time GM introduced it at Chicago they've said '550+' but everyone that I've seen making an estimate has figured it would be more than the CTS-V, and GM fairly recently said that it would be more than the CTS-V. So I don't know who you're thinking of thats been saying it would be less.

As for Ford, until I hear then say something about improving the grip on the GT500, I'll consider a 600+ hp version a paper tiger. Last time I checked, a 650 hp Super Snake as delivered by Shelby is barely faster than a 556 hp CTS-V as delivered by GM. Bumping the power on the GT500 to 600 (or 620, or 650, or 680 or whatever the latest rumour is) isn't going to do it any good if it can't hook. Well, thats not entirely true. It will give it some sales from people who look only at hp and couldn't care less about having the rest of the car match the engine. Meanwhile, we know the ZL1 will have more power, less weight, and more grip than the CTS-V which should translate into a decent improvement.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Meanwhile, we know the ZL1 will have more power, less weight, and more grip than the CTS-V which should translate into a decent improvement.

A clear understatement, my friend.

Recall, folks, the LS9 is rated 638 hp. Right? "Sources" say there are darned few, if any, that only make 638 hp. So, without doing anything to the LSA, other than adding ZL1's new more-efficient exhaust, 556+ easily becomes a "rated" 560+...without doing anything extra...

And, as mentioned by DGthe3, above, "ratings" don't always tell "the rest of the story..."

[GEEo]

Originally Posted by Z4me

585 or more

+1

It should be 585 or more because the new GT500 is rumored that it will be around 650hp with it's new Turbo set up.

[2010SSRSM6]

A minor 3% improvement in power over the CTS-V's LSA power plant puts it @ 572hp. Increasing flow through the exhaust, replacing belt driven systems like the power steering pump with an electric version, changing the intake and intercooler flow, etc, should net a larger gain than 3%.

The only two detractors that I see from hitting the 600 hp mark are:

1) liability; Does GM want the extra warranty issues that can be associated with another 600 hp car? What kind of cost increase is going to be required to keep this profitable? Is it going to put the car out of reach for the target buyers?

2) C.A.F.E; With the sales #'s of the Camaro and it's great M.P.G. rating, the company M.P.G. rating is going to drop like a rock if they can't get the numbers up. Pumping fuel through a 65-80 # fuel injector that would be required on something like a 600 + Camaro is only going to make it worse. How many volt's have been sold? Something tells me that the Camaro is out selling just about everything else in the lineup, with the only exception being the trucks........... How do they effect the C.A.F.E. rating?

Unfortunately GM has to get to the moronic C.A.F.E. standards. If things don't change, we could be looking at the same crap that happened in the late 70's and early 80's again.

What are the sales figures for the CTS-V next to the CTS? I doubt the ZL1 will eclipse 10% of the total Camaro sales so it shouldn't hurt the C.A.F.E. numbers that much.

Bring on the Gas Guzzler Tax!!!!

[556hp]

Great comments and speculations to this point...but regardless what the "advertised" HP will be, one thing for certain with the LSA...for less than $1,000 upgrades the 650 HP range can be reached easily without too much stress on the motor...less than the price of 4 new tires for the ZL1.

I doubt very seriously that very many of the ZL1's will remain stock (for very long anyway). I said it before....boost is like crack...very addictive

[Nvincent4708]

I'm going to be reasonable.. 575

[radz28]

Originally Posted by CAMAROZL1

You guys are missing an incredible fact that ultimately decides the horsepower rating:

PRICE

If they want to sell this car base in the high $50k's, I'll say 566 HP

If they want to sell this car base in the mid $60k's, I'll stretch all the way to 582 HP

There's no way they are going to put 600+ horsepower when they have the Corvette. Let Ford be the dummy and roast their tires while they try to put all that power on the ground. 650+ horsepower in a Mustang? at what price?? $80K????

While I won't entirely disagree, I don't know that I'd make the leap you have. I believe SS to be about the greatest value out there, and think ZL1 is going to follow suit. I really don't see another vehicle in GM's line-up that doesn't offer more value than price. Look at ZR1, for example. It performs with cars the like of which can get up to what, 4-times more expensive (LF-A, for example)? While I'll still openly admit ZR1 is not a true supercar (while I think it absolutely performs like one), for the price, it can't be beat; and it's going to get even better with the changes for the '12 model.

I don't think a 600 horse' ZL1 is going to be out of the question, money-wise. I really don't think LSA in CTS-V is even breathing heavy at it's 556 horse', so leaning on LSA with a couple pounds more boost, better exhaust, maybe a more efficient upper plenum, and maybe a little more aggressive cam would easily push it to 600 with little to no worry. I don't know if the pistons will take it, but they're oil-cooled, so I think there's some wiggle room.

JMHO...

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

There are already a couple companies doing the blower swap on the CTS-V with the Maggie 2300 and Whipple 2.9. Should be plenty of options for the ZL-1 when it comes out.

Yeah - but we don't get a good, modular base plenum, like the Ford boys have in their Ponys. That means another +$7K investment in a complete kit, where if GM could just stuff a 2300 in there from the start for us, many probably won't need to mod' at all.

Speaking of which - maybe stuffing the 2300 in there is another way to easily get closer to 600 horse'...

Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6

A minor 3% improvement in power over the CTS-V's LSA power plant puts it @ 572hp. Increasing flow through the exhaust, replacing belt driven systems like the power steering pump with an electric version, changing the intake and intercooler flow, etc, should net a larger gain than 3%.

've been forgetting about these points lately. I actually believe we might see the EPS come over to ZR1 and CTS-V, only because I think they're do for a little refreshening. Look at what we already have heard about the '12 ZR1 improvements; I think maybe they could use EPS to get CTS-V closer to beating the GG, too. Anyways - even if LSA gets no other changes except the upper plenum and exhaust manifolds, I think a couple percent could get gained simply from running EPS and the less restrictive exhaust (manifolds and mufflers).

The only two detractors that I see from hitting the 600 hp mark are:

1) liability; Does GM want the extra warranty issues that can be associated with another 600 hp car? What kind of cost increase is going to be required to keep this profitable? Is it going to put the car out of reach for the target buyers?

I think warranty issues will be offset with the improvements in the rest of the chassis. Get a look at those plant photos with the new differential in them; OMG! HUGE!!! We also saw images of the "small" half-shaft. GM's officially said a new driveshaft, too, in addition, so while I totally see your point, I believe this might not be too big a deal. Considering the durability tests LSA has already completed for CTS-V, I believe there's a fair amount more room to grow without getting into a bad situation.

2) C.A.F.E; With the sales #'s of the Camaro and it's great M.P.G. rating, the company M.P.G. rating is going to drop like a rock if they can't get the numbers up. Pumping fuel through a 65-80 # fuel injector that would be required on something like a 600 + Camaro is only going to make it worse. How many volt's have been sold? Something tells me that the Camaro is out selling just about everything else in the lineup, with the only exception being the trucks........... How do they effect the C.A.F.E. rating?

Yeah - besides lower weight and the EPS, I can't really think of anything that's going in ZL1's favor to increase MPG, measurably. I couldn't begin to understand the correlation with CAFE crap...

Unfortunately GM has to get to the moronic C.A.F.E. standards. If things don't change, we could be looking at the same crap that happened in the late 70's and early 80's again.

What are the sales figures for the CTS-V next to the CTS? I doubt the ZL1 will eclipse 10% of the total Camaro sales so it shouldn't hurt the C.A.F.E. numbers that much.

Bring on the Gas Guzzler Tax!!!!
These are statements that make me think this will be the last stop for big, high performance cars. While I appreciate smaller, more efficient cars, I don't know the confidence that I have in the future generations having as much charisma as the 5th does for me. Of course, I didn't think that before it came out, so I can very well be wrong, but I'm not too hot on listening to a small-displacement V8 whirring to 9000 RPMs in a muscle/pony car yet. I want to feel like I'm going fast as much as look like I'm going fast and sound is a big part of that to me.

Call me a stick in the mud

Excellent post!!!

Originally Posted by 556hp

Great comments and speculations to this point...but regardless what the "advertised" HP will be, one thing for certain with the LSA...for less than $1,000 upgrades the 650 HP range can be reached easily without too much stress on the motor...less than the price of 4 new tires for the ZL1.

I doubt very seriously that very many of the ZL1's will remain stock (for very long anyway). I said it before....boost is like crack...very addictive

I think you better change your screen name

[htron50]

I'm just going to say that if I have to pay a gas guzzler tax I want the bragging rights for having the TOP ponycar. PERIOD. And, knowing what Ford is up to means GM needs to give us advertised 600 HP. Otherwise when Ford launches 2013 in July with 600+ bragging rights for ZL1 will be null and void. No need for GM to think ZR1 is being cannibalized ... it's not even a "ponycar"... Now Gittyup.

We've waited almost a year for this car.... I sure hope it's shelf life on HP dominace lasts more than 4 months.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by htron50

I'm just going to say that if I have to pay a gas guzzler tax I want the bragging rights for having the TOP ponycar. PERIOD. And, knowing what Ford is up to means GM needs to give us advertised 600 HP. Otherwise when Ford launches 2013 in July with 600+ bragging rights for ZL1 will be null and void. No need for GM to think ZR1 is being cannibalized ... it's not even a "ponycar"... Now Gittyup.

We've waited almost a year for this car.... I sure hope it's shelf life on HP dominace lasts more than 4 months.

LOL A little harsh, but I can't say I disagree

[Scarrzz]

.

My dream used to be somewhat outlandish. 500+ to the wheels.

It's gonna be close enough for hand grenades when I crank it at the dealership.

As far as I'm concerned, everything beyond there is gravy. . (But I like lots of gravy.)

[Crowley]

It is interesting that they say North of 570 .. that still leaves it pretty open .. we all know on a S/C car an extra 50hp should be easy to find and I doubt that much more will put any worries about longevity in the LSA .... I'm going to say that it will come in at 605hp ..

Crowley