Supercharging advice

[caper]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Not necessarily, it depends on power goals, in this Case NO.

Modest boost is 6-8 PSI which could net you 500-550 RWHP Easy and Reliably.

We built hundreds of Stock Bottom end Supercharger packages over the last 20 years.

Ted.

thats exactly what i am hoping for, 5-550 hp, and SAFE...i realize more psi, more hp...more mods needed. but i dont want to get into all that if i can be at the levels you mention and be ok with reliability.

[bumblebeecamaro]

this is why I added a water/meth system to my TVS 2300 setup. I didn't have to have it but everyone said it would really help my engine and provide some cheap insurance at the same time.

might want to check in to it.

[MikeLA2011ss]

Everyone thank you so much for your input, I am definitely going to supercharge it, I have been working with ragin Racin and have not heard/ experienced anything but good work, Ted I definitely want to talk about that vortech set up and see what we can do, I have about 4 other Camaro owners interested as well, call me at 337 366 4016---- also I heard the meth injection was very effective along with an oil cooler. I'm trying not to forge my internals right now, eventually yes, 2 years from now yes. My goals are to walk all over a Shelby gt 500 lol. 05 06 07 gt, new 5.0 down, cobra and Shelby to go! Haha go Camaro!

[midgard]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.

Sorry to Hear this....Yes....the engine may have been the fault here....but I think the best tuners aren't going to allow certain builds to proceed....regardless of all the numbers looking good.

[east TX Muscle cars]

Originally Posted by MikeLA2011ss

What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons

i wouldnt run 12 PSI on a stock bottom end, not if you want it to live a while, most of our stg 6 kits are doing 670+ rwhp with under 10 PSI of boost, and if you do it with a Vortec you are being even eaiser on your motor over a maggie. let us know if we can help you out on your build, our shop car is getting a YSI right now actually :-)
and our other two shop cars already have vortec's on them. they are great blowers.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.

man that really sucks! you hear about a guy here and there popping a motor on lower boost but not as often as 10+ psi cars, after about 9 PSI or 650 RWHP i tell my customers your time is limited...another thins is a good tune. tune has to be PERFECT for a motor to live at these levels.

[skip_168]

Originally Posted by MikeLA2011ss

What's up everyone, so I am going with a centrifigal supercharger set up, I keep hearing the weak point in an ls3 is the valves, what is the max psi or max hp an ls3 can run safely? I hear 12 psi and under all the time, I also hear no more then 650 hp and psi doesn't matter... I already have full bolt ons

You need to do some math with this one...

Your boost and power is limited by the stock short block for sure...

at a bare minimum, replace the stock flat top pistons with forged dished pistons to lower your compression ratio and do the math to figure out what your maximum boost should be... use the specs on the blower you want, find its "sweet spot" (the highest airflow for HP used to turn the SC), and determine what your starting compression ratio should be to meet the max airflow at a compression of no more than 11:1... this should keep you on pump gas and get you the most power.


at minimum, get the flat-top hypereutectic pistons out of the engine... if your gonna shoot for more than 650 HP, loose the rods as well...

[HufferSS]

Ted how do Vortech IATs compare to Procharger or ECS or even a PD like a Maggie or a WHipple?

[Camarowguy]

Ted, what's the lift on the blower cams your using in the ls3 engines with stock pistons. I'm seeing slot of ls3 engines fail...and I've noticed they all have bent valves in the mix. I know you know I'm getting at. I'm thinking with those flat pistons that the valves may be kissing them slightly and causing some failures. Of course cam timing has alot to do with it too, not just lift. Op, if you have the funds, I'd change pistons and rods before putting the blower on it. Also, if your going to do a cam, not is the time to check piston to valve clearance and degree it in.

[Caliman93230]

Can you live with whipple ls3 stock, twin pump meth LT's cam making 700rwhp ?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I have a ProCharger installed and although the engine IAT's and all were good, engine still cracked up inside this past week. Only, took 1 1/2 months. We used all brand new top of the line accessories in the heads. Medium size custom grind 3 pin. blower CAM and still kaboom.
Word of advice; Save yourself some serious stress and stay stock or forge the engine first, then get a supercharger or figure out a way to go no more than 5psi. of boost (seems pretty useless to go that low though).
I ran 7.5psi. at 6400rpm. which is very modest (rarely hit more than 4500rpm.), and as you know centris provide boost based on RPM's. Upon inspetion so far a bent valve, now need to tear down the entire engine to figure out what went wrong. Not good at all.
Everyone believed this LS3 engine could handle <10psi. yet lot's of stories of cracked up engines. The only guys that don't have busted engines are the ones that bored them to 416ci. or 427ci. and forged the internals.
I thought I could have things done well below the 10psi. and wait until next spring to have engine stroked and forged.

I was reading this thread and getting a bit nervous in regards to jumping into the supercharger world until I saw 680 rwhp listed, that motor was thumping for sure.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by MikeLA2011ss

Everyone thank you so much for your input, I am definitely going to supercharge it, I have been working with ragin Racin and have not heard/ experienced anything but good work, Ted I definitely want to talk about that vortech set up and see what we can do, I have about 4 other Camaro owners interested as well, call me at 337 366 4016---- also I heard the meth injection was very effective along with an oil cooler. I'm trying not to forge my internals right now, eventually yes, 2 years from now yes. My goals are to walk all over a Shelby gt 500 lol. 05 06 07 gt, new 5.0 down, cobra and Shelby to go! Haha go Camaro!

Nice Talking with you today Mike, I Look forward to working with you.

Ted.

[East Coast Supercharging]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Ted how do Vortech IATs compare to Procharger or ECS or even a PD like a Maggie or a WHipple?

I'm not sure if Ted has installed an ECS kit, so I'll answer my experiences between what you have posted. Any of the top mount/roots blowers are going to have much higher IAT's then any of the centrifugals listed, it's just the nature of the beast.
The centrifugals listed will all be fairly close in comparison given the same variables, boost level etc. The ECS kit has a slight advantage over the others because our ducting used is aluminum compared to steel. The aluminum acts as a continuous intercooler while the steel becomes a heat sink.

Boost in general is not something to be afraid of as long as you know the boundaries in which it remains safe. We supercharge several cars per week for some time now, and on average they last very long. Most cars are stock or just headers with the addition of the charger, but we have many-many cars over 700 rwhp, and a few over 800rwhp, with just our charger kit, headers, and meth injection that have been holding up that way for years.





Doug @ ECS

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Ted how do Vortech IATs compare to Procharger or ECS or even a PD like a Maggie or a WHipple?

The Vortechs Have the Lowest IATs of Any Superchargers we have ever used on the Camaro.

It has the Largest intercooler on the Market, Rated for up to 1200 HP.

With our Vortech Upgrade kit We see 600-620 RWHP on Unopend LS3s at 10 PSI at Redline

It is the Only Kit that offers it's own 10 Rib self tensioning Drive system with an ATI SuperDamper Standard.

I Love the Vortechs I have 2 of them on my own cars.

A 900 HP 502 Big Block, 70 Chevelle Wagon, and a 2000 LS1 Trans Am WS6 Ram Air with 550 hp.




Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

Ted, what's the lift on the blower cams your using in the ls3 engines with stock pistons. I'm seeing slot of ls3 engines fail...and I've noticed they all have bent valves in the mix. I know you know I'm getting at. I'm thinking with those flat pistons that the valves may be kissing them slightly and causing some failures. Of course cam timing has alot to do with it too, not just lift. Op, if you have the funds, I'd change pistons and rods before putting the blower on it. Also, if your going to do a cam, not is the time to check piston to valve clearance and degree it in.

They are in the 6-650 Range depending.

We have not Seen a Single failure like this.

If Valves hit pistons then Valve Springs or over Reving are to blame.

Ted.