2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Yes I do think it will gain close to that amount of weight from the coolers and much more. 650 HP in a stock Mustang monocoque is not a good car. It is a too powerful engine in a too weak chassis and driveline. The people at SVT are very smart. If they don't know what I know from our development work on the road course version for Saleen, they can call me and for a small fee I'll give them a hand. When the 2013 is released it will be a very good car and much heavier than the current version.

This is one area where the Camaro shined from the beginning, was it not? The chassis was designed for this sort of power from the outset.

Originally Posted by NicolasKL

Smart, but apparently massive liars, saying it'll be 3850.

There's still a year to go...or so...perhaps they just don't know, and aren't humble enough to use the "TBD" phrasing...

Originally Posted by JusticePete

We have had enough delirium for one day. I lit up a Monte Cristo Platimum and poured myself a Benedictine and Brandy Care to celebrate the release of ZL1 pricing and for my friends that are soon to take delivery. Care to join me for a virtual night cap?

Yes. Please.

Cheers, my friend. Today was a good day.

(for Camaro, and Mustang fans, alike if I must say)

[SSTAT]

I'll try to keep this short. I road race a camaro in NASA competition, I am the driver, mechanic and pit crew, so before I say anything else I want to say that I am very proud of what chevy has done with the ZL1, especially given its weight. Secondly, I agree with many here about how regardless of what comes out next year, or from whom, the ZL1 is awesome how it stands. Here is my problem. I believe there was a statement quoted on this site from the ZL1 development team that went something like "we dont just want to beat the mustang, we want to destroy it". Chevy threw down the gauntlet. Now ford of course with a 2013 model has the obvious advantage of besting whatever HP numbers chevy quotes for the 2012 and would be stupid not to do so. Heres the thing: Ford intentionally, and ruthlessly, EMBARRASED the ZL1 team with this announcement. They didnt just best the numbers by 20-30hp as is usually done, they murdered the numbers with 70hp. And I just cant help from hearing that quote again and again in my head. And I dont think this should be moved to a ford vs GM forum, this is a ZL1 issue. This is a matter of a promise to us loyalists, this is a matter of respect and answering not typical model year 'one upsmanship' but a direct insult from ford to chevy. And I understand and (to a degree) agree that HP isnt everything but look what this has done to the ZL1 in the press in just 1 day. Guys, we simply cannot take this lying down, we cannot let the ZL1 get beat by the 500 after all this effort, we cannot. Screw 2013, this needs to be answered NOW. I am sure durability testing has been done on the LSA at higher numbers anticipating future year enhancements, if not slap a pulley on that girl at get to work because the future is as of 11/15/2011. Scott, I've met you, we've talked, you love camaro more than anybody, this can be done. Raising the boost on a CTSV to 12.5 with pulleys and a tune, nothing else, raises HP by about 100, cool the IATs a little more if you have to and get it done. This was not a model year 'gotcha', this was an insult and should be taken as such. This is your legendary ZL1, this is our legendary ZL1. I have and have always had faith. Godfather - this can be done!

your loyal follower -

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by davidcroft

I wonder if they are using the AWESOME Getrag transmission from the 5 point slow?

GT500s use a good old Tremec.

Originally Posted by kcobean

Speak for yourself. The 'ring is one of THE BEST indicators of a cars overall performance. I didn't buy a dragster, I bought a sports car. If you're arguing that in order to be impressed by a car, all it has to do is make a good 1/4 mile time, that's you, but for most of the rest of us, there is a hell of a lot more to a car than that.

Originally Posted by toesuf94

Nobody's ass has been handed to anybody! Ford hands Motor Trend some hand built non-production Mustangs and throws out some huge horsepower numbers and suddenly my ass has been handed to me and GM has dropped the ball? Wha? If you want a Ford, go buy one. I am sure they will be happy to have your business.

We have seen the current GT500 have traction issues...so adding more horsepower and torque is going to solve that? NO. Transmission issue?...more torque is usually NOT a good idea. They changed some trim and the taillights, slapped in a bigger engine with a bigger blower, and some minor tweaks and suddenly all the problems they have been having magically fade away? No.

When Ford posts a Nurburgring time faster than the ZL1, then they have something to crow about. When Ford actually BEATS a ZL1, then they have something to shout about. ONLY after the two cars face off will we know who's ass gets handed to whom. Right now all we have is fanboy speculation.

They haven't posted a time but people have spied the new GT500 doing the ring just as fast and FASTER than the ZL1.

Originally Posted by Caliman93230

If the gt500 is priced the same as the zl1 then it's all over, but if it's more say 60k then u can buy a zl1 upgrade the blower and make about 750 hp, the bad part is it will still be a drivers race since the mustang is ligther and you will lose your warranty

No, you can't. Or I guess you could, but how long will those cast pistons hold up? I can't for the life of me figure out my GM wussed out and didn't go with ALL forged internals on the ZL1.

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

honest post. I like that.

Now, before today, most of us screamed daily: ZL1 is King! Crusher of the GT500! Now, some of us have retreated to "GT500 is still gonna have traction issues" like you know if the ZL1 doesn't have traction issues with its 580hp. Shoot, I have major traction issues with my supercharged SS! The other 1/3 is now saying, "well, the ZL1 is going to be a better all around car." Crap, a BMW 3 series is a better all around car and you bought a Camaro anyway! What is the point? The best is not always the best overall but if you talk like a car guy, then you should know that performance is what matters...not the cushiony seat or how well it rides on the freeway, yada yada. The other 1/3 is now saying..well, the ZL1 still looks better. STFU already. Just tip your hat to Ford and the new GT500 and stop being a cry baby. If you are a car person, you won't have all these insecurities but rather you should be happy that the selection keeps getting better.

I'm a Camaro fanboy and will never own a Mustang, but Damn it if ford doesn't keep one uping us!

[Mr. Wyndham]

I don't view things that way...(And I don't remember a quote that direct, to be honest)

Actually...I see it as an act of saving-face on the side of Ford...they RARELY announce things this early in advance...so before the final ZL1 info was released and people got in a frenzy...they'd shoot out some of their own to get some of the spotlight.

But one thing remains a reality...the ZL1 is real. In a few months, it will be prowling the roads. The '13 GT500 is not. Not yet, anyways. And it will remain to be seen if this 650 hp's bite is as bad as its bark....I'm doubtful.

[hairtrigger]

I'm amazed a 600 + hp relatively small displacement boosted motor doesn't detonate to death without race fuel like VP C12 or so. What's the highest octane 91 to 94? The Mustard 5.8 with 650 hp must be pushing the limit for sure. The LSA will be pulling timing too with weak gas. So you might not get your advertized horsepower.

[2012ZL1]

Its still a poo-stick. The front is ugly, the back is ugly and 650 hp is cool, but those cammer engines just sound crappy. They don't have a deep sound, they kinda sound like an outboard motor out of the water.
If I wanted a 1/4 mile car I'd build one out of an SS, or buy the copo, so the ZL1 is still a superior car for a well balanced approach to a sports car.
The 500 will be a stab'n steer job, and many insurance claim ditch excursions later will offer up their mighty outboards for use in kit cars and hot rods.
If you want one fine, but at the current price of the ZL1, I'm choosing Chevy.

[SeanPlunk]

Originally Posted by hairtrigger

I'm amazed a 600 + hp relatively small displacement boosted motor doesn't detonate to death without race fuel like VP C12 or so. What's the highest octane 91 to 94? The Mustard 5.8 with 650 hp must be pushing the limit for sure. The LSA will be pulling timing too with weak gas. So you might not get your advertized horsepower.

Doubt it. I bet with just a pulley and tune you can be easily over 700 crank horsepower on 91.

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by NicolasKL

you are out of your mind. Have you ever even heard a 2011+ GT500 in person?

The answers to those questions are Yes and Yes.

[hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by dans776

The Mustangs make 750rwhp on 91 octane and live no problem, Both the GT500's and the new 5.0 Coyote motor Mustangs. The new Mustang GT 5.0 is 11 to 1 compression. Put 15lbs of boost on it and they make 750rwhp and with the stock auto run 9.90's. There are several that do it too, on 18'' tires completely stock other than blower and drag radials...

15 lbs of boost on an 11:1 302ci running 91 octane pump gas making 850 crank horsepower?????? 750 at the wheels????? ok

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by hairtrigger

15 lbs of boost on an 11:1 302ci running 91 octane pump gas making 850 crank horsepower?????? 750 at the wheels????? ok

You need to get out to the track more.

[hairtrigger]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

You need to get out to the track more.

It's just the fuel I'm questioning.

[hairtrigger]

No hate, just questioning 2.73 HP/CI on 91 octane without detonation. Maybe I have to get out there more.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by dans776

More like about 825flwhp. There are a ton of 07-09 Gt500's that make 750rwhp aswell. The mod motors love compression and boost. Maybe you need to educate yourself about them alittle more.....8 lbs of boost on a stick car will make 700+rwhp on the coyote motor. It would take 15 with a 5.4 and 8.4 compression.

Anyways Haters gonna hate regaurdless of the facts

I'll come back tomorrow to see some more tears shed

What supercharger, or tuner is achieving this on only 8 psi boost?

http://www.teamjdm.com/2011-mustang-...ercharger-kit/
This is 624 SAE hp @ 9 lbs of boost...

http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/S...ustang2011.htm

769 rwhp @ 16 psi boost.... not 8 psi

"The entry level 8 psi kit made a staggering 177HP over stock. Kenne Bell is using a huge inlet breathing outside the engine compartment [cold air] while others suck through smaller tubes inside the [hot] engine compartment."

Only 177 hp over stock on 8 psi... nowhere near 700+ rwhp.

http://store.jpcracing.com/Positive-...ger_c_803.html

Those are a bunch of superchargers for the 5.0L not making what you claim can be done on 8 psi.

"Produces 525 SAE hp @ 6400 rpm and 470 SAE lb.-ft. @ 4200 rpm, at approximately 7 psi of boost with 93 octane fuel"

I can't find anyone making 700+ rwhp on the 5.0L coyote with only 8 lbs of boost.

The closest was the JPC Turbo making 615 RWHP on 6 pounds of boost...still shy of 700+ rwhp

You are right, haters are going to hate regardless of the facts...


EDIT: ANother one from Vortech http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=174

This is fun: The complete system will boost your stock 2011 GT to 605 HP* and 473 lb/ft* torque with 7.5-8.5 PSI from the V-3 supercharger at the factory redline. *Supercharged horsepower and torque data shown is a calculated estimate based on percentage increases from actual rear wheel HP/Torque measurements.

[rez333]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

30 pounds for a larger engine cooloing system, a batch of additional coolers, bigger brakes, stronger diff, stronger tranny... Maybe they made them all out of ultra light weight unobtainium

We'll all see when the car is built and Ford issues the final specifications in a year of less, but I'll stand by my guess it is about the same weight as a ZL1. If it does come in only 30 pounds heavier feel free to humiliate me and my crystal ball with this post.

dude - you sound like those Ford fan bois who made lots of excuses when the ZL1 did 7:41s at the ring.

Why on earth would you suppose Ford would lie about the 3850lb weight?