Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by zero

I knew this thread would turn into a fanboy cluster from both sides but as a camaro owner I was excited about the ZL1, not so much now.

ZL1 didn`t kill the Boss with NA 5.0 motor, yes it was faster but come on, that boss with a 5.0 NA is impressive. We can argue they got better times with boss on different days and will get better times with the ZL1 however it was not a huge victory to beat a stock NA 5.0 :(

And now because the Zl1 didnt blow the boss off the drag strip we now can say it was faster than the boss around the track. and the ZL1 was made to handle. There has been more threads locked, people banned, egos hurt over drag times. But now that doesn`t matter as the ZL1 is a handler.


So if the boss is close to the ZL1 and IF I am SAYING IF the 13 Gt500 is faster at both the track and drag strip. Where does that leave the ZL1 if it does get beat by the GT500?

Over hyped on here from GM and camaro nation? possibly

Another letter?

One of best non-biased and honest posts about the hoopla. No one seems to wanna see the glaring 136hp deficit for the boss and it still ran nose to nose in a 1/4 race and impressively only 2+ ticks behind in lap. A 580hp ZL1 that has been touted to beat the GT500 should easily beat it's smaller brother. A lot of egos will be hurt and words shoved back down throats when the Kraken from Ford is released. True enthusiast will glorify both cars but noobs and Transformers fans will get butt hurt once again. Sad to see members waste so much energy hating on other cars when they could be twice as happy and happy all the time by opening their minds and embracing the true meaning of being a car enthusiast.

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

The Camaro MAY be a part of the answer to the Mustang - but one also needs to understand that Ford makes the Mustang as their 'halo' or 'performance' car. That's where they spend their dollars on performance.

Chevy has two performance cars - we put our dollars into two vehicles.

So - in terms of Chevy's stable of performance cars versus Ford's stable of performance cars - the ZR1 must be taken into consideration......you may not like that or agree with it, but in the grand scheme of things, the ZR1 is our "king of the hill" so to speak.

That only matters to fanboys who can't afford either the GT500 or the ZL1. If you're in the market for a ~50k pony car it matters NOT ONE IOTA what the ZR1 does or does not do.

As to "Toyota" in your profile, not sure exactly why someone on a Camaro site would put "Toyota" in their signature if indeed they drive a Camaro or a Mustang.

DO you drive a Camaro or a Mustang?

Because in addition to a GT500 (which I thought the photo made fairly clear) I also (daily) drive a Toyota.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

One of best non-biased and honest posts about the hoopla. No one seems to wanna see the glaring 136hp deficit for the boss and it still ran nose to nose in a 1/4 race and impressively only 2+ ticks behind in lap. A 580hp ZL1 that has been touted to beat the GT500 should easily beat it's smaller brother. A lot of egos will be hurt and words shoved back down throats when the Kraken from Ford is released. True enthusiast will glorify both cars but noobs and Transformers fans will get butt hurt once again. Sad to see members waste so much energy hating on other cars when they could be twice as happy and happy all the time by opening their minds and embracing the true meaning of being a car enthusiast.

LMAO @ ford releasing "the kraken", it will be a good battle but lets not overhype that car as well! theyre both gonna be awesome cars. Like i said earlier, the 2013 was fords response to ZL1 rumors. They had nothing to compare it to. GM had 5-6 years to disect and try to beat the GT500, so their response and chance to build a better car was practically underhanded to them. Now that the GT500 has competition, its game on.

[evolve]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

One of best non-biased and honest posts about the hoopla. No one seems to wanna see the glaring 136hp deficit for the boss and it still ran nose to nose in a 1/4 race and impressively only 2+ ticks behind in lap. A 580hp ZL1 that has been touted to beat the GT500 should easily beat it's smaller brother. A lot of egos will be hurt and words shoved back down throats when the Kraken from Ford is released. True enthusiast will glorify both cars but noobs and Transformers fans will get butt hurt once again. Sad to see members waste so much energy hating on other cars when they could be twice as happy and happy all the time by opening their minds and embracing the true meaning of being a car enthusiast.

evolve approves of this message

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

That only matters to fanboys who can't afford either the GT500 or the ZL1. If you're in the market for a ~50k pony car it matters NOT ONE IOTA what the ZR1 does or does not do.



Because in addition to a GT500 (which I thought the photo made fairly clear) I also (daily) drive a Toyota.

I was thinking about getting a new DD soon. What kind of Toyota? I was looking at the Focus, Civic, and Hyundai Gen. Coupe.

Anyone know what compact car Chevy offers? (sorry to thread jack)

[sik68]

FFR has it right, the battle isn't Ford vs. Chevy. We are all allies in the battle against mundane transportation. When I'm in my Camaro, I feel like the hottest sh1t on the road...but I give any fellow enthusiast with any car a thumbs up, because they 'get it' too.

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by evolve

evolve approves of this message




I was thinking about getting a new DD soon. What kind of Toyota? I was looking at the Focus, Civic, and Hyundai Gen. Coupe.

Anyone know what compact car Chevy offers? (sorry to thread jack)

An FJ, which has been a great vehicle and which I plan to own forever. I've owned a ton of Civics though and they've been amazing cars. My first was a 1995 that had 230,000 on it and NEVER needed anything more than regular maintenance and was still running strong when I sold it. Personally I think Honda is the undisputed king when it comes to long term reliability.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

That only matters to fanboys who can't afford either the GT500 or the ZL1. If you're in the market for a ~50k pony car it matters NOT ONE IOTA what the ZR1 does or does not do.

It matters to those who are interested in the entirety of an automotive company's performance model portfolio. The fact is that Chevrolet currently supports two performance models, the Corvette and the Camaro, while Ford currently supports only one performance model, the Mustang. Accordingly, Chevrolet's performance development resources are spread across two models, while Ford focuses its performance development resources on only one model. If Chevrolet's only performance model was the Camaro, it's very likely that the Camaro offerings would be somewhat different than they currently are.

[zero]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

The Camaro MAY be a part of the answer to the Mustang - but one also needs to understand that Ford makes the Mustang as their 'halo' or 'performance' car. That's where they spend their dollars on performance.

Chevy has two performance cars - we put our dollars into two vehicles.

So - in terms of Chevy's stable of performance cars versus Ford's stable of performance cars - the ZR1 must be taken into consideration......you may not like that or agree with it, but in the grand scheme of things, the ZR1 is our "king of the hill" so to speak.

As to "Toyota" in your profile, not sure exactly why someone on a Camaro site would put "Toyota" in their signature if indeed they drive a Camaro or a Mustang.

DO you drive a Camaro or a Mustang?

So with all due respect fbodfather
As a camaro owner the ZL1 camaro SHOULD be the answer to any factory ford mustang and the corvette should not even be in the picture.

Saying the camaro MAY be part of the answer to the mustang is almost like saying if the mustang beats our best camaro to date we still have a car (super car not muscle car) in another class that will destroy it.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by zero

So with all due respect fbodfather
As a camaro owner the ZL1 camaro SHOULD be the answer to any factory ford mustang and the corvette should not even be in the picture.

Saying the camaro MAY be part of the answer to the mustang is almost like saying if the mustang beats our best camaro to date we still have a car (super car not muscle car) in another class that will destroy it.

I have to respectfully agree with this post. I don't know that it makes much business sense, but for a person like me, it wouldn't matter. I don't want to see any Mustang out-perform CAMARO, and it pains me to think CAMARO could play second fiddle because it's not the brand's halo, but at the same time, who'd pay $80K for a CAMARO? I couldn't ask GM to lose profit on the car, so while I don't like it, it doesn't mean that's not the way it's going to be.

Perhaps, partial answer, would be ZR1 for acceleration aspects and ZL1 for handling (it's quite obvious ZR1 absolutely dominates that role). For example - GM spread money all over ZL1. They probably could've had a 620 horse variation on the LS9, but how much money would be left for the rest of the powertrain and chassis? Probably none. We know SS would get stomped with no chassis improvements - only added power. So perhaps GM was thinking it would make ZL1 the all-around better car, but sacrifice a little speed and leave it to the halo to dominate in all regimes.

I couldn't articulate that as well as I liked - sorry...

[zero]

I agree, we all cried foul when they put up SS against the GT500 saying it wasn`t fair. We lost

Now we have the camaro ZL1 and they put it up against the boss. It won and people are patting GM on the back saying good job.

Now IF the GT500 is faster all around are we going to say it needs to go up against the vette? muscle car vs super car

Seems like a waste if they never set the bar higher to only have the corvette to fall back on if it loses.

Hopefully the ZR1 will win however I`m sure the 13 GT500 will tweaked enough for a win before it`s summer release.

thats my last post on the ZL1 until it actually gets tested against the GT500

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

It matters to those who are interested in the entirety of an automotive company's performance model portfolio. The fact is that Chevrolet currently supports two performance models, the Corvette and the Camaro, while Ford currently supports only one performance model, the Mustang. Accordingly, Chevrolet's performance development resources are spread across two models, while Ford focuses its performance development resources on only one model. If Chevrolet's only performance model was the Camaro, it's very likely that the Camaro offerings would be somewhat different than they currently are.

So let me get this straight. When you go to buy a car, you look at everything built by the company and take that into consideration regardless of which segment the car you are looking to buy falls into? I'd really like to know what percentage of the Camaro/Mustang buyers actually cross shop the Corvette, let alone a $100K version of that car? Anybody have even a general idea?

And I thought GM supported 3, not 2, performance cars. Where does the CTS-V fit into the equation?

I guess by having the Corvette in its portfolio there could be bragging rights as to what manufacturer builds the highest performing vehicle, but how again does that benefit a consumer in the market to get a Camaro?

[OLD_GOAT]

.............it's a shame.......

None of you are getting the big picture..............

Performance is alive and well, the best it's ever been since 1970.

There were days when mid 15 second cars were considered 'fast'.

Look at the days and times we're living in.

All it takes is for one day the government to pass a law or two. Most car owners won't care because it only effects the high performance lover. Nobody will picket the White House for passing some sort of bill that will only affect about <1% of new car buyers. Us performance guys are deep in the minority.

Been there, done that.

Right now, be it Ford, GM, or Chrysler, let's enjoy the good times.

I appreciate the Camaro SS
I appreciate the Camaro ZL1
I appreciate the any version of the 5.0 Mustang or better
I appreciate the 392 Challenger
I appreciate the Corvette

It's just too bad that fanbois on all car sites can't see the big picture.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

So let me get this straight. When you go to buy a car, you look at everything built by the company and take that into consideration regardless of which segment the car you are looking to buy falls into?

I look at the performance offerings provided by the company.

I have liked the styling of the 5th Generation Camaro since the concept vehicle was unveiled in January 2006, and I have wanted to purchase a high performance factory built 5th Generation Camaro ever since that time. I could have purchased an SS when the 5th Generation Camaro was initially released for sale, but I wanted something more and I realized that some of the technology used in the Corvette would likely make it into a factory built high performance Camaro. Therefore, I decided to wait to see what would happen before I purchased my new Camaro. It turns out that I was correct, and I am very happy that I chose to wait.

Originally Posted by tooslow

And I thought GM supported 3, not 2, performance cars. Where does the CTS-V fit into the equation?

I was referring to Chevrolet, and not GM corporate.

Originally Posted by tooslow

I guess by having the Corvette in its portfolio there could be bragging rights as to what manufacturer builds the highest performing vehicle, but how again does that benefit a consumer in the market to get a Camaro?

Having different design and development teams and target markets can lead to different ideas and lessons learned being cross pollinated allowing new technologies to be efficiently shared which can lead to improvements realized by the consumer that may not occur if there were only one design and development team and target market.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Having different design and development teams and target markets can lead to different ideas and lessons learned being cross pollinated allowing new technologies to be efficiently shared which can lead to improvements realized by the consumer that may not occur if there were only one design and development team and target market.

...WOW Bear....great insight! That was beautifull man....!