Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

That only matters to fanboys who can't afford either the GT500 or the ZL1. If you're in the market for a ~50k pony car it matters NOT ONE IOTA what the ZR1 does or does not do.

That may be how you feel - but trust me, sir - I spend a lot of time with Enthusiasts - further, I am able to peruse a myriad of market research and customer survey materials - and it DOES matter to a very large percentage of the population as to what the ZR1 Does - just as it does with the GT-500 -
I really think that using 'Fanboys' is insulting to a lot of people regardless of what site one visits....because you may be leveling that 'label' to people who you've never met and thus have no certain assurances as to how they really feel or what their motivations may be.

As I said before - the name of this site is "Camaro5" -

now - I don't own the site - and my opinions plus $2.50 will buy you a cup of coffee here in the Motor City.....but I personally don't think it's appropriate to call Camaro enthusiasts 'fanboys' when you are on a Camaro site especially if you don't know them.

I would not dream of going onto a Mustang site and saying something similar and I beg other Camaro enthusiasts not to exhibit bad behavior on Brand X sites....

(...and I'd be happy to provide you with preferred pricing on a new Chevrolet or any other quality GM product!....(to replace that Toyota..)....)

[radz28]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

That may be how you feel - but trust me, sir - I spend a lot of time with Enthusiasts - further, I am able to peruse a myriad of market research and customer survey materials - and it DOES matter to a very large percentage of the population as to what the ZR1 Does - just as it does with the GT-500 -
I really think that using 'Fanboys' is insulting to a lot of people regardless of what site one visits....because you may be leveling that 'label' to people who you've never met and thus have no certain assurances as to how they really feel or what their motivations may be.

As I said before - the name of this site is "Camaro5" -

now - I don't own the site - and my opinions plus $2.50 will buy you a cup of coffee here in the Motor City.....but I personally don't think it's appropriate to call Camaro enthusiasts 'fanboys' when you are on a Camaro site especially if you don't know them.

I would not dream of going onto a Mustang site and saying something similar and I beg other Camaro enthusiasts not to exhibit bad behavior on Brand X sites....

(...and I'd be happy to provide you with preferred pricing on a new Chevrolet or any other quality GM product!....(to replace that Toyota..)....)

Nominated as POTD.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

It matters to those who are interested in the entirety of an automotive company's performance model portfolio. The fact is that Chevrolet currently supports two performance models, the Corvette and the Camaro, while Ford currently supports only one performance model, the Mustang. Accordingly, Chevrolet's performance development resources are spread across two models, while Ford focuses its performance development resources on only one model. If Chevrolet's only performance model was the Camaro, it's very likely that the Camaro offerings would be somewhat different than they currently are.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by OLD_GOAT

.............it's a shame.......

None of you are getting the big picture..............

Performance is alive and well, the best it's ever been since 1970.

There were days when mid 15 second cars were considered 'fast'.

Look at the days and times we're living in.

All it takes is for one day the government to pass a law or two. Most car owners won't care because it only effects the high performance lover. Nobody will picket the White House for passing some sort of bill that will only affect about <1% of new car buyers. Us performance guys are deep in the minority.

Been there, done that.

Right now, be it Ford, GM, or Chrysler, let's enjoy the good times.

I appreciate the Camaro SS
I appreciate the Camaro ZL1
I appreciate the any version of the 5.0 Mustang or better
I appreciate the 392 Challenger
I appreciate the Corvette

It's just too bad that fanbois on all car sites can't see the big picture.

Why do I have to love all cars? What makes anyone entitled to tell me where my allegences should be allocated? I think it's great if a person can love all cars evenly, but this isn't "EveryCarIsCool.com". This is CAMARO5.com. I don't go to many other sites because I don't need or want to most of the time. You could call that narrow-minded, but ask me if I care.

If find I'm put-off when someone tries to deminish my enthusiasm on a site that is all about enthusiasm... Sorry - this is a fanboi sight...

[OldScoolCamaro]

Discretion is the better part of valor. Very eloquent as usual Sir Fbodfather....

[radz28]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Discretion is the better part of valor. Very eloquent as usual Sir Fbodfather....

I wish I had most of the tollerance a lot of you had...

[Deki]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I look at the performance offerings provided by the company.

I have liked the styling of the 5th Generation Camaro since the concept vehicle was unveiled in January 2006, and I have wanted to purchase a high performance factory built 5th Generation Camaro ever since that time. I could have purchased an SS when the 5th Generation Camaro was initially released for sale, but I wanted something more and I realized that some of the technology used in the Corvette would likely make it into a factory built high performance Camaro. Therefore, I decided to wait to see what would happen before I purchased my new Camaro. It turns out that I was correct, and I am very happy that I chose to wait.

The flip side to this is, if it's a companies halo car, such as the GT500 is to Ford, wouldn't they want to make faster and better developments more often to keep it relevant within the class segment they are in? The way you put it, Chevy trickles down stuff from the Corvette to the Camaro, but look how long they've had magnetic shocks in the Vettes and how long it took them to put it in the 5th Gen. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I'm buying a Porsche Cayman, I'm not gonna go look to see how the GT2RS is before I make a decision, just like EVERYONE I know who's bought an SS didn't give two hoots about a ZR1, Z06, or even a Grand Sport, or how they perform compared to their respective competition. If the SS wasn't good enough for you, and you decided to wait 3 years to get a ZL1, if the 2013 GT500 turns out to be faster, and loosely speaking "better" than it in every way, would you regret your purchase? The logic you are using would dictate that you would. Even if the GT500 doesn't best the ZL1, would you regret your purchase knowing that a Grand Sport could very well be quicker on a road course than the ZL1? Once again, the logic you are using dictates you would. Markets are defined by class and price, the ZR-1 and the Z06 in no way even remotely compare to the GT500 or the ZL1.

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

It matters to those who are interested in the entirety of an automotive company's performance model portfolio. The fact is that Chevrolet currently supports two performance models, the Corvette and the Camaro, while Ford currently supports only one performance model, the Mustang. Accordingly, Chevrolet's performance development resources are spread across two models, while Ford focuses its performance development resources on only one model. If Chevrolet's only performance model was the Camaro, it's very likely that the Camaro offerings would be somewhat different than they currently are.

Exactly: it matters to fanboys, not unbiased consumers that just want the best product.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

Exactly: it matters to fanboys, not unbiased consumers that just want the best product.

I'd like to see the research to prove this point.

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

That may be how you feel - but trust me, sir - I spend a lot of time with Enthusiasts - further, I am able to peruse a myriad of market research and customer survey materials - and it DOES matter to a very large percentage of the population as to what the ZR1 Does - just as it does with the GT-500[ -
I really think that using 'Fanboys' is insulting to a lot of people regardless of what site one visits....because you may be leveling that 'label' to people who you've never met and thus have no certain assurances as to how they really feel or what their motivations may be.

I don't mean it in an insulting way, I just don't know a better single word to describe it. It matters to people that are biased towards a particular marque and are therefore far more likely to buy that brand even if it isn't the "best" choice. Obviously, as a manufacturer, that's a desirable trait to cultivate in your market, but as a consumer, it simply isn't a very smart way to go about things. How about just "fans" instead of "fanboys"? That better?

You want people to buy Camaros based on the reputation of the ZR1, but as Goldenbear has already suggested, it is quite possible that the existence of the ZR1 actually (overall) acts as a detriment to the performance of the Camaro.

The reality is that it just doesn't make a difference. If you're buying a product, and you want to get the best product, and the best value for your money, you're better off not letting bias and emotion enter your decision process.

(...and I'd be happy to provide you with preferred pricing on a new Chevrolet or any other quality GM product!....(to replace that Toyota..)....)

Lol, no thanks. I will, however, be happy to put my Toyota up against your Traverse or Tahoe or whichever model you think is appropriate in an off roading or reliabilty contest.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by Deki

The flip side to this is, if it's a companies halo car, such as the GT500 is to Ford, wouldn't they want to make faster and better developments more often to keep it relevant within the class segment they are in?

I believe that Chevrolet does that with the Corvette.

Originally Posted by Deki

The way you put it, Chevy trickles down stuff from the Corvette to the Camaro, but look how long they've had magnetic shocks in the Vettes and how long it took them to put it in the 5th Gen.

The 5th Gen Camaro received MRC in its third model year.

Originally Posted by Deki

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if I'm buying a Porsche Cayman, I'm not gonna go look to see how the GT2RS is before I make a decision, just like EVERYONE I know who's bought an SS didn't give two hoots about a ZR1, Z06, or even a Grand Sport, or how they perform compared to their respective competition.

What about the people who didn't buy an SS, and waited for the ZL1?

Originally Posted by Deki

If the SS wasn't good enough for you, and you decided to wait 3 years to get a ZL1, if the 2013 GT500 turns out to be faster, and loosely speaking "better" than it in every way, would you regret your purchase? The logic you are using would dictate that you would.

No, because performance isn't the only factor in my decision. I much prefer the Camaro's styling to the styling of the GT500.

Originally Posted by Deki

Even if the GT500 doesn't best the ZL1, would you regret your purchase knowing that a Grand Sport could very well be quicker on a road course than the ZL1? Once again, the logic you are using dictates you would.

Once again, no, because performance isn't the only factor in my decision, and I'm not currently in the market for a new Corvette.

Originally Posted by Deki

Markets are defined by class and price, the ZR-1 and the Z06 in no way even remotely compare to the GT500 or the ZL1.

True. See my post regarding the benefits of having multiple design and development teams and target markets.

[OLD_GOAT]

Originally Posted by radz28

Why do I have to love all cars? What makes anyone entitled to tell me where my allegences should be allocated? I think it's great if a person can love all cars evenly, but this isn't "EveryCarIsCool.com". This is CAMARO5.com. I don't go to many other sites because I don't need or want to most of the time. You could call that narrow-minded, but ask me if I care.

If find I'm put-off when someone tries to deminish my enthusiasm on a site that is all about enthusiasm... Sorry - this is a fanboi sight...

Why so defensive? I never posted that you or anybody has to like all cars, just reread my post.

Furthermore, I don't need you to boldly tell me the name of this site.

Is it wrong that I appreciate all cars capable of 12 second or better quarter miles? If so, just report my post to the moderators and let them handle it. Unlike you, they probably are open minded and will see where I'm coming from.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by OLD_GOAT

Why so defensive? I never posted that you or anybody has to like all cars, just reread my post.

Furthermore, I don't need you to boldly tell me the name of this site.

Is it wrong that I appreciate all cars capable of 12 second or better quarter miles? If so, just report my post to the moderators and let them handle it. Unlike you, they probably are open minded and will see where I'm coming from.

If you want to call out fanbois, here I am. This site's about CAMARO. It's fine to be a car-guy, but this site's taylored around the love of one car. You make it sound like it's bad to be a fan boy. I guess I'm bad, but I'm a CAMARO fanatic on a CAMARO website, so I feel pretty cozy.

The Moderators here are terrible anyways (at least one I know of...).

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by OLD_GOAT

Why so defensive? I never posted that you or anybody has to like all cars, just reread my post.

Furthermore, I don't need you to boldly tell me the name of this site.

Is it wrong that I appreciate all cars capable of 12 second or better quarter miles? If so, just report my post to the moderators and let them handle it. Unlike you, they probably are open minded and will see where I'm coming from.

As fbodfather said this is Camaro5 to expect open mindedness is like asking a Jewish person to eat Pork 11/10 times it's not happening.