Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[n2oSS]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

But I can't. Or else I wouldn't have asked....

I could read the entire thread over and assume what you meant...but I thought it better to ask directly so I don't "ass-ume" incorrectly...

this is baiting but what the heck.

Go ahead and ass-ume, you already made that mistake with the zl1

[506JTF]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

But I can't. Or else I wouldn't have asked....

I could read the entire thread over and assume what you meant...but I thought it better to ask directly so I don't "ass-ume" incorrectly...

+1

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by n2oSS

this is baiting but what the heck.

Go ahead and ass-ume, you already made that mistake with the zl1

Really? Now I'll be just a little more direct...

Why the attitude? I was asking a simple question out of pure curiosity. No ill-intentions...and still none, as a matter of fact. Now I'm just put off by this reply. :(

I'm not sure how things work for you, but when in a conversation...I like a two-way street...I'm sorry you apparently don't.

[Blue Menace]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Really? Now I'll be just a little more direct...

Why the attitude? I was asking a simple question out of pure curiosity. No ill-intentions...and still none, as a matter of fact. Now I'm just put off by this reply. :(

I'm not sure how things work for you, but when in a conversation...I like a two-way street...I'm sorry you apparently don't.

Heck, I was curious, too.

[b4z]

I think when gm quotes curb weight that is with all fluids topped off. I am not sure if that includes fuel. Anybody have clarification?

Keep in mind that the cts-v had the Mrc 2 not Mrc 3.

I have to think that the Camaro/ZL1 suv sized tire packagehas got to help. That extra tire height is putting more tire to the ground.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Hey Mr. Sheriff, better put your boots on and a grab a shovel,...it's gettin pretty deep in doodoo on this thread..... , Mac, where's the ban hammer at...??? Seriously folks, this thread is a perfect example of what has become wrong with this board. It's laden with posters with apparent ill intention merely here to talk nonsense in loaded "debate" based purely on conjecture and opinion. If it were done in a respectfull manner that's fine...but it's not. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Give respect, you get respect. I guess some posters get a chuckle or some form of self worth by using provacative, negative, demeaning, belitteling, or other language in a tone with the intent to bring about confrontation. Please take the smack mouth back to the parking lot esthablishment that you frequent with your car. It's funny, with the internet and a smart phone, people become Einstein overnight by reading an article or two and talk as if they have actual real world knowledge and experience. Yes indeed, always read a few articles and bring ones jaded or biased opinion to a debate, that's always a formula for success. In conclusion, we are car guys here, and enjoy the hobby. It's more than a hobby for some of us, it's a passion, a part of our life, it's who we are. And all high performance vehicles fall within that realm. I guess the older you get, the more enlightened you become <at least that's the way it's supposed to be>. So those here to thrown stones, poke sticks in eyes, throw bottles from the rear of the crowd, laugh and giggle smuggly while hiding behind your computer screen, please gain some class, poise, and respect for your brother car enthusiasts and clean it up. This is a public service message

[Frankzl1]

Saw the car in Detroit loved it and I don't care about anything else!!! I'll wait for my Mustangs friends at Homestead Speedway - you are going to get spanked!!!!!

[zero]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Hello all..... Sheriff's back in town.

Can I ask somebody to explain how in the heck anyone can say the ZL1's been over-hyped with a straight-face???

If some are getting hung-up on the Boss Comparison...consider something (if you haven't already)

Boss LS= Ford's "Best Mustang" as attributed by the same people reviewing the ZL1. It's as fast or faster than the current GT500 around road-courses.

ZL1 = Chevy's advertised track-car Camaro.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU COMPARE THE TWO?!?!

And how many people (even Camaro fans) assumed the Z wouldn't be able to outrun a Boss Laguna Seca on a track? hmmm...but it did...

Sorry -- I don't buy it. ZL1 was adequately hyped, imvho.

no of course you wouldn`t, I am a camaro owner and have been since 2010 and actually unbiased.
You don`t own a camaro yet, but have a ZL1 on order? and you are a moderator.

Getting hung up on test gainst against boss...hell yes..
it should alot faster than a boss with all the hype about handling, state of art suspension, ring times,

10 Gt500 faster on TRACK then boss. Test it against the faster better handling and lighter 11/12 Gt500 and then will see.

compare apples to apples not apples to oranges. Might as well throw a GTR and a 911 in against the ZL1 then. Why not?

We see how many will be eating crow against the 13 Gt500 this summer. But ohhhhhhhh GM will say thats not fair as they only made the ZL1 to go against the Boss right? another letter perhaps to camaro nation.

[chain777]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Something the FoMoCo folks haven't responded to is, given it was well-known that GM was publicly announcing/revealing the production-ready ZL1 in LA, why they chose THAT EXACT MORNING to reveal their plans for a 650 hp Stang?

1) Penus envy?

2) Abject fear?

3) Pre-emptive strike with a wickless molotov?

4) What?!

Look at the shit storm it stirred up. I'd call it a marketing opportunity that was too good to pass up.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Yep, but as I wrote earlier I like my motorsports and other pleasures to last longer than 12 seconds

Then you're really gonna hate the '13 GT500. It won't even last that long.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Hello all..... Sheriff's back in town.

Can I ask somebody to explain how in the heck anyone can say the ZL1's been over-hyped with a straight-face???

If some are getting hung-up on the Boss Comparison...consider something (if you haven't already)

Boss LS= Ford's "Best Mustang" as attributed by the same people reviewing the ZL1. It's as fast or faster than the current GT500 around road-courses.

ZL1 = Chevy's advertised track-car Camaro.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU COMPARE THE TWO?!?!

And how many people (even Camaro fans) assumed the Z wouldn't be able to outrun a Boss Laguna Seca on a track? hmmm...but it did...

Sorry -- I don't buy it. ZL1 was adequately hyped, imvho.

straight-face on/: It was the '12 GT500 that was the bogey for the ZL1, no? For reasons only GM and the car mags know, they chose not to do a head-to-head with that car, and chose the Boss instead. The ZL1 beat the Boss, as it should, and now it's ass-umed that because of that fact, it's a given that it will beat the GT500. All based on some misinformation, that somehow is accepted as fact here, that the Boss is faster around a track than the GT500.

The closest comparison we have at this point is the comparisons between the CTS-V and the GT500, in which the GT500 came out ahead around a track from .5 to 1.5 seconds.

We still don't know what the outcome will be between the ZL1 and GT500, but from everything else we know, it seems it will be mighty close. The ZL1's been hyped to be the GT500 killer, and while I do believe it will win in head-to-head, I don't think the margin will be as large as some believe it will be. Some would consider that over-hyped. /straight-face off.

I'm repeating myself, but to me, it's not about all out performance. It's about how each car goes about achieving it. Both cars have incredible performance. The ZL1 seems very well balanced and refined, and makes the driver feel like a superhero. The GT500 is more of a raw, viceral car that demands more from the driver to get the most out of the car. It all depends on what you want out of a car.

You can't go wrong with either one if you choose wisely.





(but the new GT500's gonna win if all out performance is your goal...imho)

[Number 3]

I recall a thread that was very busy last summer. It seemed everyone thought GM was a big fat fail with the ZL1 because it could NEVER compete with the Boss. GM was a failure for going after the GT500 and ignoring the Boss. GM better make a Z28 or they will be the loser.

LOL

Now that the ZL1, at least in one review against the Boss, is clearly the better, faster car, why is this thread even here?

The ZL1 has apparently exceeded everyones, at least everyone in that other thread, expectations for being an outstanding track car.

So overhyped? I don't think so.

So now which Mustang is it the ZL1 has to beat to make EVERYONE happy? The Boss or the GT500 that doesn't quite exist yet?

BTW, it's always a fun discussion

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Hey Mr. Sheriff, better put your boots on and a grab a shovel,...it's gettin pretty deep in doodoo on this thread..... , Mac, where's the ban hammer at...??? Seriously folks, this thread is a perfect example of what has become wrong with this board. It's laden with posters with apparent ill intention merely here to talk nonsense in loaded "debate" based purely on conjecture and opinion. If it were done in a respectfull manner that's fine...but it's not. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Give respect, you get respect. I guess some posters get a chuckle or some form of self worth by using provacative, negative, demeaning, belitteling, or other language in a tone with the intent to bring about confrontation. Please take the smack mouth back to the parking lot esthablishment that you frequent with your car. It's funny, with the internet and a smart phone, people become Einstein overnight by reading an article or two and talk as if they have actual real world knowledge and experience. Yes indeed, always read a few articles and bring ones jaded or biased opinion to a debate, that's always a formula for success. In conclusion, we are car guys here, and enjoy the hobby. It's more than a hobby for some of us, it's a passion, a part of our life, it's who we are. And all high performance vehicles fall within that realm. I guess the older you get, the more enlightened you become <at least that's the way it's supposed to be>. So those here to thrown stones, poke sticks in eyes, throw bottles from the rear of the crowd, laugh and giggle smuggly while hiding behind your computer screen, please gain some class, poise, and respect for your brother car enthusiasts and clean it up. This is a public service message

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by chain777

I'm repeating myself, but to me, it's not about all out performance. It's about how each car goes about achieving it. Both cars have incredible performance. The ZL1 seems very well balanced and refined, and makes the driver feel like a superhero. The GT500 is more of a raw, viceral car that demands more from the driver to get the most out of the car. It all depends on what you want out of a car.

This is an excellent point that many seem to overlook, especially the magazine racers.

This post linked below to a post I made touches on this very point. Too bad that thread was closed due to the very same reasons described by OldScool in his last post.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=154

[htron50]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Please take the smack mouth back to the parking lot esthablishment that you frequent with your car.
This is a public service message

:thumb up:

PS: Thanks for putting a label to it! I think the stang forum guys decided to try to rain on our parade similar to ford announcing the 2013 in a timely fashion. Looks like they are marching in lockstep mob mentality. Their problems is, the main mag said the all new best mustang of all time is still a generation behind the new (tribute to 1969) ZL1. Ahhhhhhh life is good.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by n2oSS

wow what a thread.

I do agree the zl1 hasn't lived up to hype with what we know thus far, but what ever does. Too me gm hasn't fixed the main problem for a track car and thats weight. For 54k is the zl1 a good deal? Sure i guess it is and a ferarri for its 150k+ is a good deal to some car buyers as well. Depends on how much money ya have and how much ya wanna blow it.

Took a boosted track car against a n/a track car. Throw a s/c on that boss and i bet that'd be a fun head to head comparison. This would show us how much gm's theories do against fords imo.

If you want supercar weight, it will be supercar price. And while something in between might be nice, you can't take an existing chassi, add a whole bunch of HP supporting mods, bigger brakes, bigger tires and wider wheels, beef up the suspension and drivetrain, and not add weight. It's not possible. Even if you dump all the "extras" as far as creature comforts, it will still end up heavier. They did all they could to not add excessive weight. There are several very fast 4K cars out there, GT-R, Mercedes SL series, and others, but you can't take a camaro chassi and make it "lighter" in the way you are talking. The only ways to that would be TT forged aluminum V6 maybe, no rear seat, much more expensive brakes, maybe some 19" wheels that look undersized, easily dinged aluminum panels all around instead of just the hood, and so on. It's surely possible if you want to spend 80K or more for a camaro. The camaro is great for what it is, based on a great sedan chassi. Stiff and strong with good volume in the trunk and inside, but when Holden designed the Commadore they were not designing a corvette. If you want a corvette, buy a corvette.

Or wait 5-10 years and buy a CF-chassi car, I'm sure that's comming soon.