Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by htron50

Incorrect. The Boss 302 is the best production car Mustang has out at present. The ZL1 is the best production car Camaro has out at present. Sure it's fair. The current Boss 302 is a whole lot better than the 2012 GT500.... according to ALL I've heard bragged about or tested in mags. So, FFCobra.... you got that "key" made up story again? LOL! GIVATMEAGIN;

the Boss LS vs. GT500 is the equivalent to the c6 Z06 (which the Boss beat around Laguna Seca ) vs ZR1. Evrybody says the z06 is the best all round corvette even though the ZR1 is a lil faster.

so youre right that it beat the best mustang and it should be commended for it, the boss is fast. As fast as a non z07 suspension Z06 (and even faster around some tracks) so we can only give props to the ZL1 for such an accomplishment. I still want to see a GT500 vs ZL1, considering thats what the ZL1 was targeted to battle with.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

$8000 difference between Boss LS and ZL1.
whats the difference between a fully loaded 2SS and a $48k GT500?

A $48G Shelby isn't LOADED...although you'd need to be "loaded" to buy one...

Base to Base, buddy, about $12Gs which, last time I played with my abacus, is 50% MORE. Loaded to loaded [burp!], still far greater than the LS-ZL diff. Hell, they wanna rape you HOW MUCH just for the comp. package the 500 needs to get "extremely close" to being competitive...

Any other fruitful comments?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

I still want to see a GT500 vs ZL1, considering thats what the ZL1 was targeted to battle with.

When that happens, and when the ZL1 trounces the GT500 (or whatever it's called by then), we'll have to infiltrate the Witness Protection Program just to find you...

[OldScoolCamaro]

It's gotten so deep in here we are now well beyond needing boots and a shovel, scuba gear is also required, sorry but this has gone from the sublime to the rediculous, will the last one left turn the lights out.....say goodnight Dick..

.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

A $48G Shelby isn't LOADED...although you'd need to be "loaded" to buy one...

Base to Base, buddy, about $12Gs which, last time I played with my abacus, is 50% MORE. Loaded to loaded [burp!], still far greater than the LS-ZL diff. Hell, they wanna rape you HOW MUCH just for the comp. package the 500 needs to get "extremely close" to being competitive...

Any other fruitful comments?

Base to Base, buddy the GT500 has more amenities than the2SS. And the comp. package wasnt needed to beat an SS around the track. If you dont consider that being competitive, then what are your thoughts on a regular 2SS camaro's track prowess??

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

When that happens, and when the ZL1 trounces the GT500 (or whatever it's called by then), we'll have to infiltrate the Witness Protection Program just to find you...

not really considering it wont effect me personally. you really need to take a step back, Ive always been a lifeling GM owner (thats why my forum name on other boards has always been my name but with the 2 SS's BTW). Not sure why youre trying to make this a personal thing. the discussion is about cars, not me. What does a Witness Protection Program have to do with anything? Im not saying and have never said the GT500 will beat the ZL1 either.

[LOWDOWN]

You surely have spent a goodly amount of finger-time, here, makin' us think you're a Dearborn Dandy... In fact MauriGTio was looking more appropos...

WPP reference is for you hiding from THESE collective remarks when the final results unfold...

[LOWDOWN]

As for draggin' more comparos into this, what do YOU think of a TRABANT vs. a YUGO?

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You surely have spent a goodly amount of finger-time, here, makin' us think you're a Dearborn Dandy... In fact MauriGTio was looking more appropos...

WPP reference is for you hiding from THESE collective remarks when the final results unfold...

which remarks exactly are you talking about???? i havent said anything worthy of hiding from? Do you hide when you make mistakes? i freely admit when im wrong and move on.

I have always owned GM cars in the past. My favorite was my 94 9c1 Caprice. After selling that car, i got an itch for a car that i wont have to smog. I didnt want to build a chevelle or camaro, they have been done to death already. I was leaning towards a 70 monte carlo and couldnt find any at the time. Dodge's are too rich for my blood and old Fords are inexpensive, look great and not very popular so i decided to build one up.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

As for draggin' more comparos into this, what do YOU think of a TRABANT vs. a YUGO?

i dont care for either. I dont even know what a Trabant is or how its at all relevant to anything . Or was that supposed to be a joke?

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

i dont care for either. I dont even know what a Trabant is or how its at all relevant to anything . Or was that supposed to be a joke?

On the sage advice of Old School...


CLICK

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

On the sage advice of Old School...


CLICK

youre not making any sense, must be an old person joke

ill just have to stop responding to your personal attacks and just keep the convo strictly car related like i have been.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

On the dyno, the Camaro had better numbers. On track, using data logging software they were close to even. The difference is the GM ECM pulled timing do to IATs



The V6 curb weight comes directly off Ford's website comparison of the Mustang and Camaro. http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/compare/

The added weight for 650 ponies is not just coolers. It is everything required to support the increase in power. That is why the ZL1 is heavier than the SS. Back to the Mustang, the light weight stamped steel third arm is not adequate to control 650 HP. Ford can dip into their racing parts bin and pull out a plate verion of the upper mount and a tubular spherical arm. It will work. It weighs more than the stock stamped part. Then we move to the arms, the panhard bar, the stamped steel rear chassis brace, the front rear chassis brace, a better strut tower brace, engine mounts, upgraded clutch, tranny, drive-shaft, brakes and the list keeps going...

None of the details really matter. What matters is lap time. There is nothing that suggests, from any published data, that a current GT500 is significantly faster around a road course than the Boss even though the GT500 has more HP. Think about that. How would adding even more HP help? Road course lap times are momentum dependent, how much speed do you carry into and out of the turns. To make up for time lost in corners is hard to do with straight away acceleration. The acceleration advantage has to be HUGE and that also requires a corresponding improvement in braking. At Then we get back to the tire contact patch as the limiting factor in performance. Can you really open the throttle with 650 HP coming out of a turn?

Research and numbers scare the hell out of people when it doesn't suite their agenda.

Originally Posted by chain777

I will go out on a limb (not really), and say in straight line performance, the Camaro's gonna have it's hands full.

It would seem so.

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

this is probably the most informative post in this thread!

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

im sure it likely is an honest mistake. I just thought that maybe he had worked with the mustang enough and measured/witnessed what they actually weighed instead of relying on someone elses numbers is all.

He does. Do you remember every number in every thing you work with? I don't. Maybe I should but there are a lot of different factors and numbers in the type of testing that people do.

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

If you needed some quick info about a Mustang why would you not go to Ford's website????? Some of Yall are stirring the pot just to stir the pot and it's getting old.

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

The fact that they had a chAnce to pit the cars and didnt take the oppurtunity to smash the GT500 is disturbing though.

Disturbing..........???

You really take it that seriously?

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

That's NOT the way mag. comparos work, Mauricio. Mags solicit vehicles from the respective manufacturers...who respond (or NOT) and supply THEIR version. So:

1) Was Ford asked to supply a GT500, and DIDN'T?!

2) Did Ford send their BEST and (ooops!) the result is what we have?

Why don't you get on your horse, head on over to MT's website, and ask THEM?!

The mags write the articles, NOT the manufacturers.

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

"Speculation"gets OLD!

The OP was commenting on "actual numbers" in the title of the thread. Sorry he/she is dissapointed. If its not for him/her then he/she should find a car that excites them and join that forum. bye bye!

I agree if there is not an agenda. Which I give the benefit of the doubt. But this is where we talk about it.

Originally Posted by Uneducated Guess

could it be an SLP ZL1's time?

Originally Posted by JusticePete

There is a writer at the Chicago Tribune by the name of John Kass. He coined the phrase hopium for his political cometary. Hopium applies to a lot of things in government, business and in life. John is Greek. He probably came up with it under the influence of uozo, but that would be a different story.

A Z06 will shred tires at almost any speed and the ZR1 more so. Anyone that has a chance to drive a ZR1 with the stability and traction control off will understand why I am skeptical of a 650 HP Mustang being faster than a BOSS on a road course. Sideways is not the fast way around the track.

Why stop at 650, why not a 1,000 or more? Making HP is one thing. Putting it down is another. This isn't a slap at Ford or the Mustang. It is the rear tire contact patch slapping us in the face with a dose of reality.

I am on hopium. I still think Chevy will deliver a Z/28 5th Gen and that is definitely a different thread.

This is why I said that I like the direction GM has taken in the 'Wars'. We are NOT going to see 800 hp production Camaros and Mustangs. So someone has to go in a refined direction. Anyone can throw HP at a car but to make it a true performer is different.

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Seriously folks, this thread is a perfect example of what has become wrong with this board. It's laden with posters with apparent ill intention merely here to talk nonsense in loaded "debate" based purely on conjecture and opinion. If it were done in a respectfull manner that's fine...but it's not. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Give respect, you get respect. I guess some posters get a chuckle or some form of self worth by using provacative, negative, demeaning, belitteling, or other language in a tone with the intent to bring about confrontation. Please take the smack mouth back to the parking lot esthablishment that you frequent with your car. It's funny, with the internet and a smart phone, people become Einstein overnight by reading an article or two and talk as if they have actual real world knowledge and experience. Yes indeed, always read a few articles and bring ones jaded or biased opinion to a debate, that's always a formula for success. In conclusion, we are car guys here, and enjoy the hobby. It's more than a hobby for some of us, it's a passion, a part of our life, it's who we are. And all high performance vehicles fall within that realm. I guess the older you get, the more enlightened you become <at least that's the way it's supposed to be>. So those here to thrown stones, poke sticks in eyes, throw bottles from the rear of the crowd, laugh and giggle smuggly while hiding behind your computer screen, please gain some class, poise, and respect for your brother car enthusiasts and clean it up. This is a public service message

Agreed. And when it's time to moderate all things being equal it's obvious that the Mustang antagonists be the fix. It's easy to tell the ones who do. They concede NOTHING Camaro except as an obvious token concession to keep trolling.

Originally Posted by Number 3

I recall a thread that was very busy last summer. It seemed everyone thought GM was a big fat fail with the ZL1 because it could NEVER compete with the Boss. GM was a failure for going after the GT500 and ignoring the Boss. GM better make a Z28 or they will be the loser.

LOL

Now that the ZL1, at least in one review against the Boss, is clearly the better, faster car, why is this thread even here?

The ZL1 has apparently exceeded everyones, at least everyone in that other thread, expectations for being an outstanding track car.

So overhyped? I don't think so.

So now which Mustang is it the ZL1 has to beat to make EVERYONE happy? The Boss or the GT500 that doesn't quite exist yet?

BTW, it's always a fun discussion

Good points. I, too, remember that discussion. Different characters on the Mustang side but same stupid arguments on both sides and same fair arguments as well. I doubt we'll see other characters back in here now. lol

Originally Posted by n2oSS

I don't understand why comparing a boosted track car to a n/a track car is living up to this zl1 hype. The zl1 has a better power to weight ratio then the boss and it gets that power lower in the rpms, that alone can equate to the slightly faster times. To me all i am seeing is acceleration making the zl1 come out on top. You take a s/c and strap it to the boss and i bet it'd be a different story and the cars would be equal acceleration wise.

to get the same weight vs hp ratio per the motor trend specs sheet, the boss would need roughly 520 hp to match up. This in turn would increase its acceleration. Still have the issue of the high rever vs the mid range but im not calculating that out. So you roughly need about 76 hp to be on par in this aspect.

So how do we get the 76 hp and keep it close to the zl1 specs? Supercharger would further increase the nose weight which the boss already has more then the zl1. I dont know the weights of each engine part to really make a fair judgement on what can be swaped to make these cars fairly equal for hp vs weight and balance.

All i am saying here is this wasn't an equal showingand i would bet if you just equaled the power to weight ratio of the boss and zl1 there would be a different out come.

At this point is when we will see if gm's theories ie mag suspension, irs, ect would out play fords simple approach when on the road coarse.

Really?

So with your own point then the GT500 is a big fat fail too as far as hype.

We are talking about stock cars. Any car can be modded to perform.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Considering respect is earned, it's much appreciated you put me in the same categoory as many other respected poster. I feel the same about you PQ, not to mention your alias reminds me of my home province (Quebec - PQ for short).

I think my name comes from there. PeQueen. And that's where I got the PQ from.

[Happy_Dan]

Wow, you guys have a LOT of time!